comment by kneerash-23 Cara Gold (U6876)
posted 1 minute ago
Ia also find it odd that leave are so against a second referemdum with no deal, deal or remain on the leaflets.
Like I hear over and over it's the will of the people so they should be confident the people will vote to leave with no deal.
I guess having no deal and deal will split the leave vote.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
clearly would be a stitch up to split the leave vote and guarantee a remain win It would work if only leave voters get to choose the deal/no deal option
comment by kneerash-23 Cara Gold (U6876)
posted 33 seconds ago
Ia also find it odd that leave are so against a second referemdum with no deal, deal or remain on the leaflets.
Like I hear over and over it's the will of the people so they should be confident the people will vote to leave with no deal.
I guess having no deal and deal will split the leave vote.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Could always have four options then.
No deal brexit
Deal brexit
Remain
Remain but with fencepost shoved up bottom.
Yeah fair point.
Two more referendums so!
comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by kneerash-23 Cara Gold (U6876)
posted 1 minute ago
Ia also find it odd that leave are so against a second referemdum with no deal, deal or remain on the leaflets.
Like I hear over and over it's the will of the people so they should be confident the people will vote to leave with no deal.
I guess having no deal and deal will split the leave vote.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
clearly would be a stitch up to split the leave vote and guarantee a remain winIt would work if only leave voters get to choose the deal/no deal option
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Lets have a referendum,
Oh shiiiit, we lost
Best of 3 !
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by kneerash-23 Cara Gold (U6876)
posted 1 minute ago
Ia also find it odd that leave are so against a second referemdum with no deal, deal or remain on the leaflets.
Like I hear over and over it's the will of the people so they should be confident the people will vote to leave with no deal.
I guess having no deal and deal will split the leave vote.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
clearly would be a stitch up to split the leave vote and guarantee a remain winIt would work if only leave voters get to choose the deal/no deal option
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Lets have a referendum,
Oh shiiiit, we lost
Best of 3 !
----------------------------------------------------------------------
#simplism
comment by kneerash-23 Cara Gold (U6876)
posted 10 minutes ago
Ia also find it odd that leave are so against a second referemdum with no deal, deal or remain on the leaflets.
Like I hear over and over it's the will of the people so they should be confident the people will vote to leave with no deal.
I guess having no deal and deal will split the leave vote.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
All you'd need is a two part question.
1- Leave or remain
2- in the event of a leave win would you rather May's deal, no deal etc.
That way everyone gets a say
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by kneerash-23 Cara Gold (U6876)
posted 1 minute ago
Ia also find it odd that leave are so against a second referemdum with no deal, deal or remain on the leaflets.
Like I hear over and over it's the will of the people so they should be confident the people will vote to leave with no deal.
I guess having no deal and deal will split the leave vote.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
clearly would be a stitch up to split the leave vote and guarantee a remain winIt would work if only leave voters get to choose the deal/no deal option
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Lets have a referendum,
Oh shiiiit, we lost
Best of 3 !
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's a bit of a minefield but other than a GE (which is now a certainty) another look at the issue does seem to be a reasonable proposal.
Why doesn't England go for independence?
comment by The Welsh Xavi (U15412)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by kneerash-23 Cara Gold (U6876)
posted 10 minutes ago
Ia also find it odd that leave are so against a second referemdum with no deal, deal or remain on the leaflets.
Like I hear over and over it's the will of the people so they should be confident the people will vote to leave with no deal.
I guess having no deal and deal will split the leave vote.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
All you'd need is a two part question.
1- Leave or remain
2- in the event of a leave win would you rather May's deal, no deal etc.
That way everyone gets a say
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So we might end up with a deal that less than 25% of the electorate actually want?
comment by The Welsh Xavi (U15412)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by kneerash-23 Cara Gold (U6876)
posted 10 minutes ago
Ia also find it odd that leave are so against a second referemdum with no deal, deal or remain on the leaflets.
Like I hear over and over it's the will of the people so they should be confident the people will vote to leave with no deal.
I guess having no deal and deal will split the leave vote.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
All you'd need is a two part question.
1- Leave or remain
2- in the event of a leave win would you rather May's deal, no deal etc.
That way everyone gets a say
----------------------------------------------------------------------
1. We've had this vote !!!
2. May's vote was rejected by Parliament.
Only way for me is an election.
1. Torys - to deliver Brexit, These are our red lines, we will seek to negotiate as close as possible and if we fail to agree these, then No Deal Brexit. This could even allow for a further referendum on the Agreed Terms or No Deal.
2. Lib Dems - We will revoke A.50, say sorry to the EU for wasting their time and all get on with our lives.
3. Labour - In a difficult position. If they put forward a softer exit without any robust fall back, then the likelihood is that the EU will never give them what they want because ultimately the EU dont want us out. Their negotiating position with the EU would be weak if they have remain as the fall back. Their only real option is a 2nd referendum on Stay or Leave, but they need a robust plan for EU reform if we stay, and if we get a leave vote then it's groundhog day. Whatever their final position it needs to be a credible option that will bring this to a close at the earliest opportunity one way or the other.
comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 3 minutes ago
"Reminds me of the Chancellor stating that up to 820,000 jobs would be lost on a Leave vote alone. Since then employment has risen and unemployment has fallen."
Both of those statements can be true though, there's a lot more zero hours contracts now than there was three years ago.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Zero hours contracts actually gone down since the referendum, the first time they've dropped in over a decade. Brexit
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not quite, the numbers went up 100k last year. More than that though, the percentage on a zero hours contract has increased three times in a row. You're right it's highest point was pre referendum though
Devonshirespur (U6316)
And what do we do in the event of a hung parliament?
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by The Welsh Xavi (U15412)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by kneerash-23 Cara Gold (U6876)
posted 10 minutes ago
Ia also find it odd that leave are so against a second referemdum with no deal, deal or remain on the leaflets.
Like I hear over and over it's the will of the people so they should be confident the people will vote to leave with no deal.
I guess having no deal and deal will split the leave vote.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
All you'd need is a two part question.
1- Leave or remain
2- in the event of a leave win would you rather May's deal, no deal etc.
That way everyone gets a say
----------------------------------------------------------------------
1. We've had this vote !!!
2. May's vote was rejected by Parliament.
Only way for me is an election.
1. Torys - to deliver Brexit, These are our red lines, we will seek to negotiate as close as possible and if we fail to agree these, then No Deal Brexit. This could even allow for a further referendum on the Agreed Terms or No Deal.
2. Lib Dems - We will revoke A.50, say sorry to the EU for wasting their time and all get on with our lives.
3. Labour - In a difficult position. If they put forward a softer exit without any robust fall back, then the likelihood is that the EU will never give them what they want because ultimately the EU dont want us out. Their negotiating position with the EU would be weak if they have remain as the fall back. Their only real option is a 2nd referendum on Stay or Leave, but they need a robust plan for EU reform if we stay, and if we get a leave vote thenit's groundhog day. Whatever their final position it needs to be a credible option that will bring this to a close at the earliest opportunity one way or the other.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I've mentioned on a number of times on the politics thread that a no-deal scenario is completely unsustainable.
The UK would be in the same position trying to negotiate with the EU27 but from a position of desperation, and weakness (even more so than now).
It's nearly as if the current executive have learnt nothing since May's 'no deal is better than a bad deal rhetoric' - which of course worked really well with the EU and they ceded to the Govs demands...
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 3 minutes ago
"Reminds me of the Chancellor stating that up to 820,000 jobs would be lost on a Leave vote alone. Since then employment has risen and unemployment has fallen."
Both of those statements can be true though, there's a lot more zero hours contracts now than there was three years ago.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Zero hours contracts actually gone down since the referendum, the first time they've dropped in over a decade. Brexit
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not quite, the numbers went up 100k last year. More than that though, the percentage on a zero hours contract has increased three times in a row. You're right it's highest point was pre referendum though
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What's your source, because the Office for National Statistics says differently!
https://www.statista.com/statistics/414896/employees-with-zero-hours-contracts-number/
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 9 minutes ago
Devonshirespur (U6316)
And what do we do in the event of a hung parliament?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
the same shiiiit ad infinitum
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 9 minutes ago
Devonshirespur (U6316)
And what do we do in the event of a hung parliament?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
the same shiiiit ad infinitum
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Let's be honest though, that's the most likely outcome isn't it?
Afternoon.
Word on the street is dup are shifting to accept the WA with all Ireland arrangements to get round the hard border issue, and Boris could sell the May EU WA as his baby, tweeted a bit to by pass ERG and fears.
Basically, we have wasted time since March.
comment by What would Stuart Pearce do? Better than Goze... (U3126)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by The Welsh Xavi (U15412)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by kneerash-23 Cara Gold (U6876)
posted 10 minutes ago
Ia also find it odd that leave are so against a second referemdum with no deal, deal or remain on the leaflets.
Like I hear over and over it's the will of the people so they should be confident the people will vote to leave with no deal.
I guess having no deal and deal will split the leave vote.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
All you'd need is a two part question.
1- Leave or remain
2- in the event of a leave win would you rather May's deal, no deal etc.
That way everyone gets a say
----------------------------------------------------------------------
1. We've had this vote !!!
2. May's vote was rejected by Parliament.
Only way for me is an election.
1. Torys - to deliver Brexit, These are our red lines, we will seek to negotiate as close as possible and if we fail to agree these, then No Deal Brexit. This could even allow for a further referendum on the Agreed Terms or No Deal.
2. Lib Dems - We will revoke A.50, say sorry to the EU for wasting their time and all get on with our lives.
3. Labour - In a difficult position. If they put forward a softer exit without any robust fall back, then the likelihood is that the EU will never give them what they want because ultimately the EU dont want us out. Their negotiating position with the EU would be weak if they have remain as the fall back. Their only real option is a 2nd referendum on Stay or Leave, but they need a robust plan for EU reform if we stay, and if we get a leave vote thenit's groundhog day. Whatever their final position it needs to be a credible option that will bring this to a close at the earliest opportunity one way or the other.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I've mentioned on a number of times on the politics thread that a no-deal scenario is completely unsustainable.
The UK would be in the same position trying to negotiate with the EU27 but from a position of desperation, and weakness (even more so than now).
It's nearly as if the current executive have learnt nothing since May's 'no deal is better than a bad deal rhetoric' - which of course worked really well with the EU and they ceded to the Govs demands...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is one of the big fallacies of the remain argument.
Its the assumption that the EU and EU Members have nothing to lose by the UK leaving. That we are the ones in a position of weakness.
Some of the biggest powers in the EU have a lot to lose if they cannot reach favourable terms with us. We are a net imported from the EU. We have a £70bn trade deficit with the EU.
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 9 minutes ago
Devonshirespur (U6316)
And what do we do in the event of a hung parliament?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
the same shiiiit ad infinitum
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Let's be honest though, that's the most likely outcome isn't it?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agreed guys
Fooking shambles and no easy answer.
People will feel let down and angry...no matter how we go forward.
It's almost as if the country is split down the middle on the issue.
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by What would Stuart Pearce do? Better than Goze... (U3126)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by The Welsh Xavi (U15412)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by kneerash-23 Cara Gold (U6876)
posted 10 minutes ago
Ia also find it odd that leave are so against a second referemdum with no deal, deal or remain on the leaflets.
Like I hear over and over it's the will of the people so they should be confident the people will vote to leave with no deal.
I guess having no deal and deal will split the leave vote.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
All you'd need is a two part question.
1- Leave or remain
2- in the event of a leave win would you rather May's deal, no deal etc.
That way everyone gets a say
----------------------------------------------------------------------
1. We've had this vote !!!
2. May's vote was rejected by Parliament.
Only way for me is an election.
1. Torys - to deliver Brexit, These are our red lines, we will seek to negotiate as close as possible and if we fail to agree these, then No Deal Brexit. This could even allow for a further referendum on the Agreed Terms or No Deal.
2. Lib Dems - We will revoke A.50, say sorry to the EU for wasting their time and all get on with our lives.
3. Labour - In a difficult position. If they put forward a softer exit without any robust fall back, then the likelihood is that the EU will never give them what they want because ultimately the EU dont want us out. Their negotiating position with the EU would be weak if they have remain as the fall back. Their only real option is a 2nd referendum on Stay or Leave, but they need a robust plan for EU reform if we stay, and if we get a leave vote thenit's groundhog day. Whatever their final position it needs to be a credible option that will bring this to a close at the earliest opportunity one way or the other.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I've mentioned on a number of times on the politics thread that a no-deal scenario is completely unsustainable.
The UK would be in the same position trying to negotiate with the EU27 but from a position of desperation, and weakness (even more so than now).
It's nearly as if the current executive have learnt nothing since May's 'no deal is better than a bad deal rhetoric' - which of course worked really well with the EU and they ceded to the Govs demands...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is one of the big fallacies of the remain argument.
Its the assumption that the EU and EU Members have nothing to lose by the UK leaving. That we are the ones in a position of weakness.
Some of the biggest powers in the EU have a lot to lose if they cannot reach favourable terms with us. We are a net imported from the EU. We have a £70bn trade deficit with the EU.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In goods. Not services. Shessh. nearly 4yrs on and this nonsense is still being peddled.
Google WTO MNF for info re a no-deal
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 9 minutes ago
Devonshirespur (U6316)
And what do we do in the event of a hung parliament?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
the same shiiiit ad infinitum
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Let's be honest though, that's the most likely outcome isn't it?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I just can't stand it mate. I know you think im a leaver but i voted remain and now just want some closure on this. Its damaging us on many levels.
I would have preferred to have had a remain vote first time around and we as a country could move on. A remain victory in Ref.v2 would only leave greater divides in the country, probably rioting etc. There would be a very angry Leave element (which i would not be part of).
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 13 seconds ago
comment by What would Stuart Pearce do? Better than Goze... (U3126)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by The Welsh Xavi (U15412)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by kneerash-23 Cara Gold (U6876)
posted 10 minutes ago
Ia also find it odd that leave are so against a second referemdum with no deal, deal or remain on the leaflets.
Like I hear over and over it's the will of the people so they should be confident the people will vote to leave with no deal.
I guess having no deal and deal will split the leave vote.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
All you'd need is a two part question.
1- Leave or remain
2- in the event of a leave win would you rather May's deal, no deal etc.
That way everyone gets a say
----------------------------------------------------------------------
1. We've had this vote !!!
2. May's vote was rejected by Parliament.
Only way for me is an election.
1. Torys - to deliver Brexit, These are our red lines, we will seek to negotiate as close as possible and if we fail to agree these, then No Deal Brexit. This could even allow for a further referendum on the Agreed Terms or No Deal.
2. Lib Dems - We will revoke A.50, say sorry to the EU for wasting their time and all get on with our lives.
3. Labour - In a difficult position. If they put forward a softer exit without any robust fall back, then the likelihood is that the EU will never give them what they want because ultimately the EU dont want us out. Their negotiating position with the EU would be weak if they have remain as the fall back. Their only real option is a 2nd referendum on Stay or Leave, but they need a robust plan for EU reform if we stay, and if we get a leave vote thenit's groundhog day. Whatever their final position it needs to be a credible option that will bring this to a close at the earliest opportunity one way or the other.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I've mentioned on a number of times on the politics thread that a no-deal scenario is completely unsustainable.
The UK would be in the same position trying to negotiate with the EU27 but from a position of desperation, and weakness (even more so than now).
It's nearly as if the current executive have learnt nothing since May's 'no deal is better than a bad deal rhetoric' - which of course worked really well with the EU and they ceded to the Govs demands...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is one of the big fallacies of the remain argument.
Its the assumption that the EU and EU Members have nothing to lose by the UK leaving. That we are the ones in a position of weakness.
Some of the biggest powers in the EU have a lot to lose if they cannot reach favourable terms with us. We are a net imported from the EU. We have a £70bn trade deficit with the EU.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No deal is a big fear for Ireland...and the eu.
Not just us.
WA is possibly the only way ahead to respect a leave vote, but soft land brexit.
I voted leave, but see weakness in leave economics, but democracy entails respecting votes.
I wish it never happened at times, but it did.
If we are a liberal democracy, we need to respect a vote and if you hate that vote....campaign to rejoin after the initial peoples vote has been implimented ..
If we revoke it could cause more schite than no deal
Devonshire
The ONS via that website but this years report
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 41 seconds ago
comment by What would Stuart Pearce do? Better than Goze... (U3126)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by The Welsh Xavi (U15412)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by kneerash-23 Cara Gold (U6876)
posted 10 minutes ago
Ia also find it odd that leave are so against a second referemdum with no deal, deal or remain on the leaflets.
Like I hear over and over it's the will of the people so they should be confident the people will vote to leave with no deal.
I guess having no deal and deal will split the leave vote.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
All you'd need is a two part question.
1- Leave or remain
2- in the event of a leave win would you rather May's deal, no deal etc.
That way everyone gets a say
----------------------------------------------------------------------
1. We've had this vote !!!
2. May's vote was rejected by Parliament.
Only way for me is an election.
1. Torys - to deliver Brexit, These are our red lines, we will seek to negotiate as close as possible and if we fail to agree these, then No Deal Brexit. This could even allow for a further referendum on the Agreed Terms or No Deal.
2. Lib Dems - We will revoke A.50, say sorry to the EU for wasting their time and all get on with our lives.
3. Labour - In a difficult position. If they put forward a softer exit without any robust fall back, then the likelihood is that the EU will never give them what they want because ultimately the EU dont want us out. Their negotiating position with the EU would be weak if they have remain as the fall back. Their only real option is a 2nd referendum on Stay or Leave, but they need a robust plan for EU reform if we stay, and if we get a leave vote thenit's groundhog day. Whatever their final position it needs to be a credible option that will bring this to a close at the earliest opportunity one way or the other.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I've mentioned on a number of times on the politics thread that a no-deal scenario is completely unsustainable.
The UK would be in the same position trying to negotiate with the EU27 but from a position of desperation, and weakness (even more so than now).
It's nearly as if the current executive have learnt nothing since May's 'no deal is better than a bad deal rhetoric' - which of course worked really well with the EU and they ceded to the Govs demands...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is one of the big fallacies of the remain argument.
Its the assumption that the EU and EU Members have nothing to lose by the UK leaving. That we are the ones in a position of weakness.
Some of the biggest powers in the EU have a lot to lose if they cannot reach favourable terms with us. We are a net imported from the EU. We have a £70bn trade deficit with the EU.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sadly, our politicians have ensured the unity of the EU27 by frustrating our negotiating position every step of the way.
If we have a general election and say Brexit party wins, i bet you'll find the EU start to sing with a different tune.
Sign in if you want to comment
Boris Johnson
Page 11 of 14
10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14
posted on 24/9/19
comment by kneerash-23 Cara Gold (U6876)
posted 1 minute ago
Ia also find it odd that leave are so against a second referemdum with no deal, deal or remain on the leaflets.
Like I hear over and over it's the will of the people so they should be confident the people will vote to leave with no deal.
I guess having no deal and deal will split the leave vote.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
clearly would be a stitch up to split the leave vote and guarantee a remain win It would work if only leave voters get to choose the deal/no deal option
posted on 24/9/19
comment by kneerash-23 Cara Gold (U6876)
posted 33 seconds ago
Ia also find it odd that leave are so against a second referemdum with no deal, deal or remain on the leaflets.
Like I hear over and over it's the will of the people so they should be confident the people will vote to leave with no deal.
I guess having no deal and deal will split the leave vote.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Could always have four options then.
No deal brexit
Deal brexit
Remain
Remain but with fencepost shoved up bottom.
posted on 24/9/19
Yeah fair point.
Two more referendums so!
posted on 24/9/19
comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by kneerash-23 Cara Gold (U6876)
posted 1 minute ago
Ia also find it odd that leave are so against a second referemdum with no deal, deal or remain on the leaflets.
Like I hear over and over it's the will of the people so they should be confident the people will vote to leave with no deal.
I guess having no deal and deal will split the leave vote.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
clearly would be a stitch up to split the leave vote and guarantee a remain winIt would work if only leave voters get to choose the deal/no deal option
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Lets have a referendum,
Oh shiiiit, we lost
Best of 3 !
posted on 24/9/19
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by kneerash-23 Cara Gold (U6876)
posted 1 minute ago
Ia also find it odd that leave are so against a second referemdum with no deal, deal or remain on the leaflets.
Like I hear over and over it's the will of the people so they should be confident the people will vote to leave with no deal.
I guess having no deal and deal will split the leave vote.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
clearly would be a stitch up to split the leave vote and guarantee a remain winIt would work if only leave voters get to choose the deal/no deal option
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Lets have a referendum,
Oh shiiiit, we lost
Best of 3 !
----------------------------------------------------------------------
#simplism
posted on 24/9/19
comment by kneerash-23 Cara Gold (U6876)
posted 10 minutes ago
Ia also find it odd that leave are so against a second referemdum with no deal, deal or remain on the leaflets.
Like I hear over and over it's the will of the people so they should be confident the people will vote to leave with no deal.
I guess having no deal and deal will split the leave vote.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
All you'd need is a two part question.
1- Leave or remain
2- in the event of a leave win would you rather May's deal, no deal etc.
That way everyone gets a say
posted on 24/9/19
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by kneerash-23 Cara Gold (U6876)
posted 1 minute ago
Ia also find it odd that leave are so against a second referemdum with no deal, deal or remain on the leaflets.
Like I hear over and over it's the will of the people so they should be confident the people will vote to leave with no deal.
I guess having no deal and deal will split the leave vote.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
clearly would be a stitch up to split the leave vote and guarantee a remain winIt would work if only leave voters get to choose the deal/no deal option
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Lets have a referendum,
Oh shiiiit, we lost
Best of 3 !
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's a bit of a minefield but other than a GE (which is now a certainty) another look at the issue does seem to be a reasonable proposal.
posted on 24/9/19
Why doesn't England go for independence?
posted on 24/9/19
comment by The Welsh Xavi (U15412)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by kneerash-23 Cara Gold (U6876)
posted 10 minutes ago
Ia also find it odd that leave are so against a second referemdum with no deal, deal or remain on the leaflets.
Like I hear over and over it's the will of the people so they should be confident the people will vote to leave with no deal.
I guess having no deal and deal will split the leave vote.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
All you'd need is a two part question.
1- Leave or remain
2- in the event of a leave win would you rather May's deal, no deal etc.
That way everyone gets a say
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So we might end up with a deal that less than 25% of the electorate actually want?
posted on 24/9/19
comment by The Welsh Xavi (U15412)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by kneerash-23 Cara Gold (U6876)
posted 10 minutes ago
Ia also find it odd that leave are so against a second referemdum with no deal, deal or remain on the leaflets.
Like I hear over and over it's the will of the people so they should be confident the people will vote to leave with no deal.
I guess having no deal and deal will split the leave vote.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
All you'd need is a two part question.
1- Leave or remain
2- in the event of a leave win would you rather May's deal, no deal etc.
That way everyone gets a say
----------------------------------------------------------------------
1. We've had this vote !!!
2. May's vote was rejected by Parliament.
Only way for me is an election.
1. Torys - to deliver Brexit, These are our red lines, we will seek to negotiate as close as possible and if we fail to agree these, then No Deal Brexit. This could even allow for a further referendum on the Agreed Terms or No Deal.
2. Lib Dems - We will revoke A.50, say sorry to the EU for wasting their time and all get on with our lives.
3. Labour - In a difficult position. If they put forward a softer exit without any robust fall back, then the likelihood is that the EU will never give them what they want because ultimately the EU dont want us out. Their negotiating position with the EU would be weak if they have remain as the fall back. Their only real option is a 2nd referendum on Stay or Leave, but they need a robust plan for EU reform if we stay, and if we get a leave vote then it's groundhog day. Whatever their final position it needs to be a credible option that will bring this to a close at the earliest opportunity one way or the other.
posted on 24/9/19
comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 3 minutes ago
"Reminds me of the Chancellor stating that up to 820,000 jobs would be lost on a Leave vote alone. Since then employment has risen and unemployment has fallen."
Both of those statements can be true though, there's a lot more zero hours contracts now than there was three years ago.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Zero hours contracts actually gone down since the referendum, the first time they've dropped in over a decade. Brexit
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not quite, the numbers went up 100k last year. More than that though, the percentage on a zero hours contract has increased three times in a row. You're right it's highest point was pre referendum though
posted on 24/9/19
Devonshirespur (U6316)
And what do we do in the event of a hung parliament?
posted on 24/9/19
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by The Welsh Xavi (U15412)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by kneerash-23 Cara Gold (U6876)
posted 10 minutes ago
Ia also find it odd that leave are so against a second referemdum with no deal, deal or remain on the leaflets.
Like I hear over and over it's the will of the people so they should be confident the people will vote to leave with no deal.
I guess having no deal and deal will split the leave vote.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
All you'd need is a two part question.
1- Leave or remain
2- in the event of a leave win would you rather May's deal, no deal etc.
That way everyone gets a say
----------------------------------------------------------------------
1. We've had this vote !!!
2. May's vote was rejected by Parliament.
Only way for me is an election.
1. Torys - to deliver Brexit, These are our red lines, we will seek to negotiate as close as possible and if we fail to agree these, then No Deal Brexit. This could even allow for a further referendum on the Agreed Terms or No Deal.
2. Lib Dems - We will revoke A.50, say sorry to the EU for wasting their time and all get on with our lives.
3. Labour - In a difficult position. If they put forward a softer exit without any robust fall back, then the likelihood is that the EU will never give them what they want because ultimately the EU dont want us out. Their negotiating position with the EU would be weak if they have remain as the fall back. Their only real option is a 2nd referendum on Stay or Leave, but they need a robust plan for EU reform if we stay, and if we get a leave vote thenit's groundhog day. Whatever their final position it needs to be a credible option that will bring this to a close at the earliest opportunity one way or the other.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I've mentioned on a number of times on the politics thread that a no-deal scenario is completely unsustainable.
The UK would be in the same position trying to negotiate with the EU27 but from a position of desperation, and weakness (even more so than now).
It's nearly as if the current executive have learnt nothing since May's 'no deal is better than a bad deal rhetoric' - which of course worked really well with the EU and they ceded to the Govs demands...
posted on 24/9/19
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 3 minutes ago
"Reminds me of the Chancellor stating that up to 820,000 jobs would be lost on a Leave vote alone. Since then employment has risen and unemployment has fallen."
Both of those statements can be true though, there's a lot more zero hours contracts now than there was three years ago.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Zero hours contracts actually gone down since the referendum, the first time they've dropped in over a decade. Brexit
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not quite, the numbers went up 100k last year. More than that though, the percentage on a zero hours contract has increased three times in a row. You're right it's highest point was pre referendum though
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What's your source, because the Office for National Statistics says differently!
https://www.statista.com/statistics/414896/employees-with-zero-hours-contracts-number/
posted on 24/9/19
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 9 minutes ago
Devonshirespur (U6316)
And what do we do in the event of a hung parliament?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
the same shiiiit ad infinitum
posted on 24/9/19
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 9 minutes ago
Devonshirespur (U6316)
And what do we do in the event of a hung parliament?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
the same shiiiit ad infinitum
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Let's be honest though, that's the most likely outcome isn't it?
posted on 24/9/19
Afternoon.
Word on the street is dup are shifting to accept the WA with all Ireland arrangements to get round the hard border issue, and Boris could sell the May EU WA as his baby, tweeted a bit to by pass ERG and fears.
Basically, we have wasted time since March.
posted on 24/9/19
comment by What would Stuart Pearce do? Better than Goze... (U3126)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by The Welsh Xavi (U15412)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by kneerash-23 Cara Gold (U6876)
posted 10 minutes ago
Ia also find it odd that leave are so against a second referemdum with no deal, deal or remain on the leaflets.
Like I hear over and over it's the will of the people so they should be confident the people will vote to leave with no deal.
I guess having no deal and deal will split the leave vote.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
All you'd need is a two part question.
1- Leave or remain
2- in the event of a leave win would you rather May's deal, no deal etc.
That way everyone gets a say
----------------------------------------------------------------------
1. We've had this vote !!!
2. May's vote was rejected by Parliament.
Only way for me is an election.
1. Torys - to deliver Brexit, These are our red lines, we will seek to negotiate as close as possible and if we fail to agree these, then No Deal Brexit. This could even allow for a further referendum on the Agreed Terms or No Deal.
2. Lib Dems - We will revoke A.50, say sorry to the EU for wasting their time and all get on with our lives.
3. Labour - In a difficult position. If they put forward a softer exit without any robust fall back, then the likelihood is that the EU will never give them what they want because ultimately the EU dont want us out. Their negotiating position with the EU would be weak if they have remain as the fall back. Their only real option is a 2nd referendum on Stay or Leave, but they need a robust plan for EU reform if we stay, and if we get a leave vote thenit's groundhog day. Whatever their final position it needs to be a credible option that will bring this to a close at the earliest opportunity one way or the other.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I've mentioned on a number of times on the politics thread that a no-deal scenario is completely unsustainable.
The UK would be in the same position trying to negotiate with the EU27 but from a position of desperation, and weakness (even more so than now).
It's nearly as if the current executive have learnt nothing since May's 'no deal is better than a bad deal rhetoric' - which of course worked really well with the EU and they ceded to the Govs demands...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is one of the big fallacies of the remain argument.
Its the assumption that the EU and EU Members have nothing to lose by the UK leaving. That we are the ones in a position of weakness.
Some of the biggest powers in the EU have a lot to lose if they cannot reach favourable terms with us. We are a net imported from the EU. We have a £70bn trade deficit with the EU.
posted on 24/9/19
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 9 minutes ago
Devonshirespur (U6316)
And what do we do in the event of a hung parliament?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
the same shiiiit ad infinitum
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Let's be honest though, that's the most likely outcome isn't it?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agreed guys
Fooking shambles and no easy answer.
People will feel let down and angry...no matter how we go forward.
posted on 24/9/19
It's almost as if the country is split down the middle on the issue.
posted on 24/9/19
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by What would Stuart Pearce do? Better than Goze... (U3126)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by The Welsh Xavi (U15412)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by kneerash-23 Cara Gold (U6876)
posted 10 minutes ago
Ia also find it odd that leave are so against a second referemdum with no deal, deal or remain on the leaflets.
Like I hear over and over it's the will of the people so they should be confident the people will vote to leave with no deal.
I guess having no deal and deal will split the leave vote.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
All you'd need is a two part question.
1- Leave or remain
2- in the event of a leave win would you rather May's deal, no deal etc.
That way everyone gets a say
----------------------------------------------------------------------
1. We've had this vote !!!
2. May's vote was rejected by Parliament.
Only way for me is an election.
1. Torys - to deliver Brexit, These are our red lines, we will seek to negotiate as close as possible and if we fail to agree these, then No Deal Brexit. This could even allow for a further referendum on the Agreed Terms or No Deal.
2. Lib Dems - We will revoke A.50, say sorry to the EU for wasting their time and all get on with our lives.
3. Labour - In a difficult position. If they put forward a softer exit without any robust fall back, then the likelihood is that the EU will never give them what they want because ultimately the EU dont want us out. Their negotiating position with the EU would be weak if they have remain as the fall back. Their only real option is a 2nd referendum on Stay or Leave, but they need a robust plan for EU reform if we stay, and if we get a leave vote thenit's groundhog day. Whatever their final position it needs to be a credible option that will bring this to a close at the earliest opportunity one way or the other.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I've mentioned on a number of times on the politics thread that a no-deal scenario is completely unsustainable.
The UK would be in the same position trying to negotiate with the EU27 but from a position of desperation, and weakness (even more so than now).
It's nearly as if the current executive have learnt nothing since May's 'no deal is better than a bad deal rhetoric' - which of course worked really well with the EU and they ceded to the Govs demands...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is one of the big fallacies of the remain argument.
Its the assumption that the EU and EU Members have nothing to lose by the UK leaving. That we are the ones in a position of weakness.
Some of the biggest powers in the EU have a lot to lose if they cannot reach favourable terms with us. We are a net imported from the EU. We have a £70bn trade deficit with the EU.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In goods. Not services. Shessh. nearly 4yrs on and this nonsense is still being peddled.
Google WTO MNF for info re a no-deal
posted on 24/9/19
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 9 minutes ago
Devonshirespur (U6316)
And what do we do in the event of a hung parliament?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
the same shiiiit ad infinitum
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Let's be honest though, that's the most likely outcome isn't it?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I just can't stand it mate. I know you think im a leaver but i voted remain and now just want some closure on this. Its damaging us on many levels.
I would have preferred to have had a remain vote first time around and we as a country could move on. A remain victory in Ref.v2 would only leave greater divides in the country, probably rioting etc. There would be a very angry Leave element (which i would not be part of).
posted on 24/9/19
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 13 seconds ago
comment by What would Stuart Pearce do? Better than Goze... (U3126)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by The Welsh Xavi (U15412)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by kneerash-23 Cara Gold (U6876)
posted 10 minutes ago
Ia also find it odd that leave are so against a second referemdum with no deal, deal or remain on the leaflets.
Like I hear over and over it's the will of the people so they should be confident the people will vote to leave with no deal.
I guess having no deal and deal will split the leave vote.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
All you'd need is a two part question.
1- Leave or remain
2- in the event of a leave win would you rather May's deal, no deal etc.
That way everyone gets a say
----------------------------------------------------------------------
1. We've had this vote !!!
2. May's vote was rejected by Parliament.
Only way for me is an election.
1. Torys - to deliver Brexit, These are our red lines, we will seek to negotiate as close as possible and if we fail to agree these, then No Deal Brexit. This could even allow for a further referendum on the Agreed Terms or No Deal.
2. Lib Dems - We will revoke A.50, say sorry to the EU for wasting their time and all get on with our lives.
3. Labour - In a difficult position. If they put forward a softer exit without any robust fall back, then the likelihood is that the EU will never give them what they want because ultimately the EU dont want us out. Their negotiating position with the EU would be weak if they have remain as the fall back. Their only real option is a 2nd referendum on Stay or Leave, but they need a robust plan for EU reform if we stay, and if we get a leave vote thenit's groundhog day. Whatever their final position it needs to be a credible option that will bring this to a close at the earliest opportunity one way or the other.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I've mentioned on a number of times on the politics thread that a no-deal scenario is completely unsustainable.
The UK would be in the same position trying to negotiate with the EU27 but from a position of desperation, and weakness (even more so than now).
It's nearly as if the current executive have learnt nothing since May's 'no deal is better than a bad deal rhetoric' - which of course worked really well with the EU and they ceded to the Govs demands...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is one of the big fallacies of the remain argument.
Its the assumption that the EU and EU Members have nothing to lose by the UK leaving. That we are the ones in a position of weakness.
Some of the biggest powers in the EU have a lot to lose if they cannot reach favourable terms with us. We are a net imported from the EU. We have a £70bn trade deficit with the EU.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No deal is a big fear for Ireland...and the eu.
Not just us.
WA is possibly the only way ahead to respect a leave vote, but soft land brexit.
I voted leave, but see weakness in leave economics, but democracy entails respecting votes.
I wish it never happened at times, but it did.
If we are a liberal democracy, we need to respect a vote and if you hate that vote....campaign to rejoin after the initial peoples vote has been implimented ..
If we revoke it could cause more schite than no deal
posted on 24/9/19
Devonshire
The ONS via that website but this years report
posted on 24/9/19
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 41 seconds ago
comment by What would Stuart Pearce do? Better than Goze... (U3126)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by The Welsh Xavi (U15412)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by kneerash-23 Cara Gold (U6876)
posted 10 minutes ago
Ia also find it odd that leave are so against a second referemdum with no deal, deal or remain on the leaflets.
Like I hear over and over it's the will of the people so they should be confident the people will vote to leave with no deal.
I guess having no deal and deal will split the leave vote.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
All you'd need is a two part question.
1- Leave or remain
2- in the event of a leave win would you rather May's deal, no deal etc.
That way everyone gets a say
----------------------------------------------------------------------
1. We've had this vote !!!
2. May's vote was rejected by Parliament.
Only way for me is an election.
1. Torys - to deliver Brexit, These are our red lines, we will seek to negotiate as close as possible and if we fail to agree these, then No Deal Brexit. This could even allow for a further referendum on the Agreed Terms or No Deal.
2. Lib Dems - We will revoke A.50, say sorry to the EU for wasting their time and all get on with our lives.
3. Labour - In a difficult position. If they put forward a softer exit without any robust fall back, then the likelihood is that the EU will never give them what they want because ultimately the EU dont want us out. Their negotiating position with the EU would be weak if they have remain as the fall back. Their only real option is a 2nd referendum on Stay or Leave, but they need a robust plan for EU reform if we stay, and if we get a leave vote thenit's groundhog day. Whatever their final position it needs to be a credible option that will bring this to a close at the earliest opportunity one way or the other.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I've mentioned on a number of times on the politics thread that a no-deal scenario is completely unsustainable.
The UK would be in the same position trying to negotiate with the EU27 but from a position of desperation, and weakness (even more so than now).
It's nearly as if the current executive have learnt nothing since May's 'no deal is better than a bad deal rhetoric' - which of course worked really well with the EU and they ceded to the Govs demands...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is one of the big fallacies of the remain argument.
Its the assumption that the EU and EU Members have nothing to lose by the UK leaving. That we are the ones in a position of weakness.
Some of the biggest powers in the EU have a lot to lose if they cannot reach favourable terms with us. We are a net imported from the EU. We have a £70bn trade deficit with the EU.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sadly, our politicians have ensured the unity of the EU27 by frustrating our negotiating position every step of the way.
If we have a general election and say Brexit party wins, i bet you'll find the EU start to sing with a different tune.
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