Devonshirespur (U6316)

Otherwise known as the Piers Morgan view - which I'm sorry, is overly simplistic.

How can you respect the result when it means different things to different people?

Farage would argue May's deal isn't respecting the result, but it was - given the vagueness of the result.

You see?

This 'we voted leave so we must leave' is too simplistic to actually be viable.

comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Fred Bassett - I would love to dig up Thatcher's gorgeous corpse and fill it with my man mayo. Our little Tory babies would be glorious milk thieving, mine closing life wreckers. Oooh my darling Maggie, please come back to Freddy boy (U3979)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 25 seconds ago
I've never used that slogan anyway. I'm not obsessed with leaving but the vote was to leave so we should leave otherwise it undermines our democracy. I'm fine with a 2nd referemdum too as long as there's a proper leave option.
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It doesn't undermine our democracy at all.

Daft to say it does. Nobody voted for this.

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ignoring the biggest democratic vote doesn't undermine democracy, right
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When a policy choice has been proven to be a disaster (poll tax etc) it's customary for legislators to have a rethink is it not?

In regard to the EUref more people actually voted in the 1992 GE. Which also had a higher turnout rate.

steak pie and chips for me,and you can stick all your celebrity chefs in a pie and they can bake off

Talking dog poo pie

comment by What would Stuart Pearce do? Better than Gozer the Gozerian (U3126)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Fred Bassett - I would love to dig up Thatcher's gorgeous corpse and fill it with my man mayo. Our little Tory babies would be glorious milk thieving, mine closing life wreckers. Oooh my darling Maggie, please come back to Freddy boy (U3979)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 25 seconds ago
I've never used that slogan anyway. I'm not obsessed with leaving but the vote was to leave so we should leave otherwise it undermines our democracy. I'm fine with a 2nd referemdum too as long as there's a proper leave option.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It doesn't undermine our democracy at all.

Daft to say it does. Nobody voted for this.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
ignoring the biggest democratic vote doesn't undermine democracy, right
----------------------------------------------------------------------
When a policy choice has been proven to be a disaster (poll tax etc) it's customary for legislators to have a rethink is it not?

In regard to the EUref more people actually voted in the 1992 GE. Which also had a higher turnout rate.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The way it's been handled has been a disaster, the policy itself hasn't been implemented. Like I said I'm in favour of a 2nd referendum just not one that has two remain options.

We send £350m a week to the quiche factories in Belgium. Let's use that money to fund our steak pie factories instead.

comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 1 minute ago
Devonshirespur (U6316)

Yes, and stating that is the question is simplism.

Because it isn't as simple as that.

'Leave' has many different guises. Shouting 'WE VOTED TO LEAVE' ignores the complexities involved.
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I get this absolutely. Even amongst Brexiteers there's a whole hard to soft spectrum of views. What doesnt sit well with me is those who will simply frustrate any means of implementing leave.

I say this not as a Brexiteer as i voted remain, but as someone who considers the referendum result should be respected. If its not then what is or was the point? Sure it may not be legally enforceable but i would view it as a complete breach of the peoples trust and undermining the democratic purpose.

Parliament has failed us and this is typified by the stance of the Lib Dems who will sit there in total objection to the referendum result and would vote against any deal (good or bad).



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Until another referendum. Remember their position without a GE is that any choice should go back to the people to decide and they would honour the result of that, which is arguably more democratic than just choosing a flavour of leave created by a government that doesn't even have a majority anymore.

*and isn't even aligned to their own manifesto

Generally speaking, its sad to see Leavers so entrenched in their soundbites and slogans that they can't actually adopt any critical thinking to this.

What slogans are you referring to? Don't see anyone using any

comment by _Viva_Vida (U6044)
posted 1 minute ago
Generally speaking, its sad to see Leavers so entrenched in their soundbites and slogans that they can't actually adopt any critical thinking to this.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

It is, but on the flip side I don't think a lot of people on the remain side have grasped that this went beyond a reasoned or logical debate and into an emotive one even before the vote was counted. That's actually the biggest negative for me, the lack of empathy and social intelligence has created divisions and issues that will last even longer than anything else

comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 3 minutes ago
What slogans are you referring to? Don't see anyone using any
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Think you were talking some nonsense about pies or something.

comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by What would Stuart Pearce do? Better than Gozer the Gozerian (U3126)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Fred Bassett - I would love to dig up Thatcher's gorgeous corpse and fill it with my man mayo. Our little Tory babies would be glorious milk thieving, mine closing life wreckers. Oooh my darling Maggie, please come back to Freddy boy (U3979)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 25 seconds ago
I've never used that slogan anyway. I'm not obsessed with leaving but the vote was to leave so we should leave otherwise it undermines our democracy. I'm fine with a 2nd referemdum too as long as there's a proper leave option.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It doesn't undermine our democracy at all.

Daft to say it does. Nobody voted for this.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
ignoring the biggest democratic vote doesn't undermine democracy, right
----------------------------------------------------------------------
When a policy choice has been proven to be a disaster (poll tax etc) it's customary for legislators to have a rethink is it not?

In regard to the EUref more people actually voted in the 1992 GE. Which also had a higher turnout rate.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The way it's been handled has been a disaster, the policy itself hasn't been implemented. Like I said I'm in favour of a 2nd referendum just not one that has two remain options.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's because the policy was fundamentally flawed.

As Winston and others pointed out a binary question was not a very sensible way to settle a multifaceted issue.

The WA was a compromise (on both sides) but it was not distant enough for the headbangers who want to cut economic ties with the EU (and by default the rest of the world). Staggering that some still think this is a good idea.

Given the impeding climate crisis, I'd argue that the UK trying to increase market access to the far east etc (ie more flights and shipping to from foreign destinations rather than across the channel) is a pretty stupid idea.

I mentioned back in 2016 that the Govs choice to leave the SM and CU would cause untold issues in delivering Brexit given NI shares a land border with the EU.

What has ensued since is a consequence of the Govs incompatible red lines in line their objectives.

comment by Finlay Robertson (U1734)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 3 minutes ago
What slogans are you referring to? Don't see anyone using any
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Think you were talking some nonsense about pies or something.
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No bite barry, I don't like sh!t pie

comment by _Viva_Vida (U6044)
posted 9 minutes ago
Generally speaking, its sad to see Leavers so entrenched in their soundbites and slogans that they can't actually adopt any critical thinking to this.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The sad thing is that many are too proud and ego driven to admit that they’ve been duped/are wrong that they’d rather see their own lives, and that of others, completely destroyed rather than admit to the truth of the matter. This so called sanctity of democracy isn’t really something that many believe, in my opinion.

comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 11 seconds ago
comment by Finlay Robertson (U1734)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 3 minutes ago
What slogans are you referring to? Don't see anyone using any
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Think you were talking some nonsense about pies or something.
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No bite barry, I don't like sh!t pie
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What pie suits you then seeing as the promised steak is not available? Remember to bear in mind that everyone who voted for steak pie should agree on what pie should be had by all. Including those who didn't want pie in the first place.

I'm not hungry, just had lunch.

comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 32 seconds ago
I'm not hungry, just had lunch.
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You’re happy with the pie order being completely revoked then?

Or shall I notify the kitchen of a further pie extension?

comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 4 minutes ago
Devonshirespur (U6316)

Otherwise known as the Piers Morgan view - which I'm sorry, is overly simplistic.

How can you respect the result when it means different things to different people?

Farage would argue May's deal isn't respecting the result, but it was - given the vagueness of the result.

You see?

This 'we voted leave so we must leave' is too simplistic to actually be viable.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

You respect the result by reaching consensus on how to deliver that result in the best interest of the country. Its called a negotiation. Parliament coming together to find the most agreeable way to deliver Brexit. This simply has not happened.

Parliament cannot say, we tried our best and failed, because they havent, and particularly when some want the whole thing to fail so will obstruct any option.
I
On these issues of National importance individuals and party ideologies will be different but in scenarios such as deciding whether to go to War, you do not expect MPs to toe the political line or make decisions based on gaining votes or personal career gains. Their actions and decisions should be above this. I have not seen this in the attempts to agree a deal here. Going back to May not making it a cross party discussion from the outset, to the Lib Dems now not supporting any exit. How can any of them say they have done everything they can to implement the decision. They can't. Im not budging in my opinion and so Brexit is unviable is not acceptable and is a failure of MPs to do their duty.

IMO an election is the only solution, but that does rely on Labour actually making clear what their position is because more indecision is the last thing this country needs.

and by the way, quit the the sneery Pier Morgan jibes. You know jack about me and your uninformed and frankly incorrect judgements are pathetic and add nothing, other than to the sense that your a smug individual who thinks he occupies the moral high ground.

comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by _Viva_Vida (U6044)
posted 1 minute ago
Generally speaking, its sad to see Leavers so entrenched in their soundbites and slogans that they can't actually adopt any critical thinking to this.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

It is, but on the flip side I don't think a lot of people on the remain side have grasped that this went beyond a reasoned or logical debate and into an emotive one even before the vote was counted. That's actually the biggest negative for me, the lack of empathy and social intelligence has created divisions and issues that will last even longer than anything else
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agree with this, trying to unify the country is just as important as resolving the brexit issue. That's where I think Labour could actually be successful by staying in the middle, the Tories/Brexit party and Lib Dems are appealing to the tribal extremes on both sides but neither can bring the country together because of that.

Amazing how people still support the Eu after von der leyen and langarde

comment by rosso is facking happy (U17054)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 32 seconds ago
I'm not hungry, just had lunch.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You’re happy with the pie order being completely revoked then?

Or shall I notify the kitchen of a further pie extension?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'll just eat the crust, it's the best bit

comment by Mason The King Greenwood (U10026)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by _Viva_Vida (U6044)
posted 9 minutes ago
Generally speaking, its sad to see Leavers so entrenched in their soundbites and slogans that they can't actually adopt any critical thinking to this.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The sad thing is that many are too proud and ego driven to admit that they’ve been duped/are wrong that they’d rather see their own lives, and that of others, completely destroyed rather than admit to the truth of the matter. This so called sanctity of democracy isn’t really something that many believe, in my opinion.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Part of the problem in this debate are statements like this....

"they’d rather see their own lives, and that of others, completely destroyed"

The vote is on whether we leave a political and economic union, not whether we declare world on the rest of the world, conscribe and arm every man woman and child and send them marching into battle!

There’s nothing wrong with that statement at all.

comment by Mason The King Greenwood (U10026)
posted 52 seconds ago
There’s nothing wrong with that statement at all.
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Yeah it's very balanced and reasoned Ive seen a nuclear holocaust described in more positive terms