And on the challenge of trying to create a vaccine in the first place:
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/2020/04/why-coronavirus-vaccine-could-take-way-longer-than-a-year/
If the past is any indicator, the world won’t have a coronavirus vaccine for more than a year, probably longer. The mumps vaccine—considered the fastest ever approved—took four years to go from collecting viral samples to licensing a drug in 1967. Clinical trials come with three phases, and the first stages of the current COVID-19 trials aren’t due for completion until this fall, spring 2021, or much later. And there are good reasons to allow time for safety checks. Some preliminary vaccines for the related coronavirus SARS, for instance, actually enhanced the disease in model experiments.
“A year to 18 months would be absolutely unprecedented,” says Peter Hotez, dean at Baylor University’s National School of Tropical Medicine.
So since you decline to answer, I'm going to assume that you have sufficient intelligence to understand that "exiting full lockdown" did not mean no lockdown measures at all.
Now regarding the timing of vaccines etc...
"If the past is any indicator, the world won’t have a coronavirus vaccine for more than a year, probably longer. The mumps vaccine—considered the fastest ever approved—took four years to go from collecting viral samples to licensing a drug in 1967."
1967!?!??!?
Seriously?
Since you were 3 years old have you noticed any technological advancement!?!?!?
I hope you can access the following article in the UK:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/scientists-rush-to-develop-novel-coronavirus-vaccine-60-minutes-2020-03-22/
I can copy and paste if needed.
comment by Jonty (U4614)
posted 1 hour, 40 minutes ago
comment by JonnyLosAngeles (My Dad was made in Leeds) עם ישראל חי (U9756)
posted 6 minutes ago
If "full lockdown" is 100 and life as we knew it in January was 0, do you think she meant going from 100 to 0, or going from 100 to a lower number, likely far north of 0?
I think PM (what a lovely man) chose to interpret it as going from 100 to 0
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You would have to ask her, the point is she said, fit Stevie to say otherwise is incorrect.
__________________________________________
You don't have an opinion on what she meant?
Really?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think my opinion has been more than clear in this thread.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, you think English clubs should be bailed out by FIFA.
If that's not true then what clubs were you talking about?
I love that Jonty is the only one that is right and everyone else is wrong. It's hilarious.
South Korea has already told us that 91 people have retested positive after being cleared. That means there is no immunity, and no vaccine.
What's more, we know this virus mutates. Fast. And under lockdown conditions, each country is its own environment - simple evolution shows us that different organisms evolve differently in different environments. So the virus you may be immune to in one country will not offer you immunity in another.
This suggests the virus is going to continue until we are all dead. It's an extinction phase.
So we may as well enjoy what we can - bring back football.
Every one of your arguments is a nuclear woe-is-me claim Jonty - there are risks in life every time we breathe, eat and move. We will have to return to some sort of normality at some point, but I predict it will not be the normality we used to have.
And enclosed training pitches and grounds with no fans mean that risks are at their lowest. And the time for the matches being possible is possibly mid-May - while players could be training from tomorrow.
And when was the last time you heard of a player being hospitalised from doing cardio and strength training? Pulled muscle maybe, but hospital? When was the last time?
Progress?
Covid-19 patients recovering quickly after getting experimental drug remdesivir
By Maggie Fox, CNN
Thu April 16, 2020
(CNN)Covid-19 patients who are getting an experimental drug called remdesivir have been recovering quickly, with most going home in days, STAT News reported Thursday after it obtained a video of a conversation about the trial.
The patients taking part in a clinical trial of the drug have all had severe respiratory symptoms and fever, but were able to leave the hospital after less than a week of treatment, STAT quoted the doctor leading the trial as saying.
"The best news is that most of our patients have already been discharged, which is great. We've only had two patients perish," Dr. Kathleen Mullane, an infectious disease specialist at the University of Chicago who is leading the clinical trial, said in the video.
What we know about the state of coronavirus treatments, vaccines and antibody tests
What we know about the state of coronavirus treatments, vaccines and antibody tests
Mullane did not immediately respond to a request for comment from CNN. The university said it would comment once the official results of the trial were ready.
There is no approved therapy for the Covid-19, which can cause severe pneumonia and acute respiratory distress syndrome in some patients. But the National Institutes of Health is organizing trials of several drugs and other treatments, among them remdesivir.
The drug, made by Gilead Sciences, was tested against Ebola with little success, but multiple studies in animals showed the drug could both prevent and treat coronaviruses related to Covid-19, including SARS (Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome) and MERS (Middle East Respiratory Syndrome).
Back in February, the World Health Organization said remdesivir showed potential against Covid-19.
STAT said it obtained and viewed a copy of the video discussion Mullane had last week with colleagues about the trial.
"Most of our patients are severe and most of them are leaving at six days, so that tells us duration of therapy doesn't have to be 10 days," she was quoted as saying.
However, the trial does not include what's known as a control group, so it will be difficult to say whether the drug is truly helping patients recover better. With a control arm, some patients do not receive the drug being tested so that doctors can determine whether it's the drug that is really affecting their condition.
Trials of the drug are ongoing at dozens of other clinical centers, as well. Gilead is sponsoring tests of the drug in 2,400 patients with severe Covid-19 symptoms in 152 trial sites around the world. It's also testing the drug in 1,600 patients with moderate symptoms at 169 hospitals and clinics around the world.
Gilead said it expected results from the trial by the end of the month.
"We understand the urgent need for a COVID-19 treatment and the resulting interest in data on our investigational antiviral drug remdesivir," the company said in a statement to CNN. But it said a few stories about patients are just that -- stories.
"The totality of the data need to be analyzed in order to draw any conclusions from the trial. Anecdotal reports, while encouraging, do not provide the statistical power necessary to determine the safety and efficacy profile of remdesivir as a treatment for Covid-19," Gilead said.
And herein lies the problem, I've given actual quotes from actual scientists who have been asked about the issue and the counter argument is using CNN reporting on a leaked video and the source declining to comment, was it CNN who reported on the nurse refusing to work because of lack of PPE and then the world found out the video was a fake?
Jonny, the point about the article I posted on vaccines, which from your comments I'm assuming you haven't actually read, is that it takes a long time to create a vaccine and indeed for the 4 coronaviruses that affect humans that they have not yet created a vaccine, despite medical advances. You can dance around that all you like but these are facts.
With regards to Dorries comments, you are doing teh same as Piers Morgan does, trying to interpret, trying to force words into others mouths.
At the risk of repeating myself, for the sake of clarity, lockdowns will ebb and flow, being released to some degree, re-instated etc until we have a vaccine.
And unless we are prepared to just live with covid19 then everyone will need immunity or vaccine and when you look at the facts about vaccines and listen to medical experts and not CNN, the chances of developing one within 12 months are slim to none.
I don't like that any more than the next person. My living has disappeared, my kids education has all but disappeared and I'm starting to see friends and acquaintances lose their lives to this, but when faced with scientific issues, I'll listen to what the scientists are saying and have been saying repeatedly.
The fake nurse story reported by CNN:
https://www.ccn.com/covid-19-unit-nurse-says-hospital-forbade-her-to-wear-n95-mask/
comment by Jonty (U4614)
posted 1 hour, 34 minutes ago
The fake nurse story reported by CNN:
https://www.ccn.com/covid-19-unit-nurse-says-hospital-forbade-her-to-wear-n95-mask/
--------------------------------------------------------------------
This is insane and tragic. First I've seen it.
So its fake news or what? I'm not sure what you just said there.
comment by Jonty (U4614)
posted 1 hour, 41 minutes ago
And herein lies the problem, I've given actual quotes from actual scientists who have been asked about the issue and the counter argument is using CNN reporting on a leaked video and the source declining to comment, was it CNN who reported on the nurse refusing to work because of lack of PPE and then the world found out the video was a fake?
Jonny, the point about the article I posted on vaccines, which from your comments I'm assuming you haven't actually read, is that it takes a long time to create a vaccine and indeed for the 4 coronaviruses that affect humans that they have not yet created a vaccine, despite medical advances. You can dance around that all you like but these are facts.
With regards to Dorries comments, you are doing teh same as Piers Morgan does, trying to interpret, trying to force words into others mouths.
At the risk of repeating myself, for the sake of clarity, lockdowns will ebb and flow, being released to some degree, re-instated etc until we have a vaccine.
And unless we are prepared to just live with covid19 then everyone will need immunity or vaccine and when you look at the facts about vaccines and listen to medical experts and not CNN, the chances of developing one within 12 months are slim to none.
I don't like that any more than the next person. My living has disappeared, my kids education has all but disappeared and I'm starting to see friends and acquaintances lose their lives to this, but when faced with scientific issues, I'll listen to what the scientists are saying and have been saying repeatedly.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What about new information and knowledge about Covid that could come out at anytime, even tomorrow, or the next month, you never know.
New info and research would change the opinions of these experts. In fact, opinions and predictions have changed with the discovery of new facts since this outbreak started. Its scientific to have an open mind and if new info comes out the scientists could change their opinions.
They are repeatedly stating that its too early to decide anything. We have to wait and football has to wait too. Canceling the season is on the table but its too early to be sure it wont turn out to be a huge mistake that actually puts clubs in more danger than they possibly could have been. This is the best approach whether you want to admit that or not.
Ok enough speculating let’s just see what happens. You believe what you want, be depressed and negative if that makes you feel better. This has just become silly.
comment by JonnyLosAngeles (My Dad was made in Leeds) עם ישראל חי (U9756)
posted 6 minutes ago
Ok enough speculating let’s just see what happens. You believe what you want, be depressed and negative if that makes you feel better. This has just become silly.
-----------------------
at least he's consistant, I guess
I’m Not depressed at all, I’m just presenting you with facts rather than basing my thoughts on unreliable media.
It’s by listening to scientists rather than CNN that I have hope in the results from Germany about transmission methods which their data is the basis for the following:
“There is no significant risk of catching the disease when you go shopping. Severe outbreaks of the infection were always a result of people being closer together over a longer period of time, for example the après- ski parties in Ischgl, Austria.” He could also not find any evidence of ‘living’ viruses on surfaces. “When we took samples from door handles, phones or toilets it has not been possible to cultivate the virus in the laboratory on the basis of these swabs….”
You can call that depression, I call it medical research which offers a hugely positive way forward for society.
Bundesinstitute für Risikobewertung!..
"Federal institutes for risk assessment"
https://www.bfr.bund.de/en/can_the_new_type_of_coronavirus_be_transmitted_via_food_and_objects_-244090.html
‘The Independent has seen a letter sent by the EFL to all club members detailing a plan that recommends a return-to-training date for players of 16 May, should the level of lockdown be eased next month, and that while a return date has not been officially rubber-stamped clubs have been instructed to prepare for a resumption 'at short notice'.
Premier League clubs remain united in their desire to finish the season, but the controversial proposal of completing the campaign by June 30 was not raised in Friday's meeting.
All top-flight clubs were represented on the video call in which the primary topic of conversation was a debate over models for completing the season.
No representative in attendance raised the idea of finishing the season by June 30 and the issues of pay cuts and transfer windows were also not debated.
A Premier League spokesperson said: "We are acutely aware of the distress COVID-19 is causing and our thoughts are with all those directly affected by the pandemic.
"In common with other businesses and industries, the Premier League and our clubs are working through complex planning scenarios. We are actively engaging with stakeholders, including broadcast partners, and our aim is to ensure we are in a position to resume playing when it is safe to do so and with the full support of the Government.
"The health and wellbeing of players, coaches, managers, club staff and supporters are our priority and the League will only restart when medical guidance allows.
"Today's shareholders' meeting provided an opportunity to discuss possible scheduling models. It remains our objective to complete the 2019/20 season but at this stage all dates are tentative while the impact of COVID-19 develops.
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11661/11974479/premier-league-united-on-playing-season-no-june-30-finish-or-transfer-window-talks
PL looking at a best case scenario of matches starting up again in mid June, worst case October. I'd guess the Championship will be looking to do similar.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/apr/17/premier-league-could-return-by-mid-june-in-best-case-scenario-football
Sign in if you want to comment
The latest
Page 5 of 5
posted on 16/4/20
And on the challenge of trying to create a vaccine in the first place:
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/2020/04/why-coronavirus-vaccine-could-take-way-longer-than-a-year/
If the past is any indicator, the world won’t have a coronavirus vaccine for more than a year, probably longer. The mumps vaccine—considered the fastest ever approved—took four years to go from collecting viral samples to licensing a drug in 1967. Clinical trials come with three phases, and the first stages of the current COVID-19 trials aren’t due for completion until this fall, spring 2021, or much later. And there are good reasons to allow time for safety checks. Some preliminary vaccines for the related coronavirus SARS, for instance, actually enhanced the disease in model experiments.
“A year to 18 months would be absolutely unprecedented,” says Peter Hotez, dean at Baylor University’s National School of Tropical Medicine.
posted on 16/4/20
So since you decline to answer, I'm going to assume that you have sufficient intelligence to understand that "exiting full lockdown" did not mean no lockdown measures at all.
Now regarding the timing of vaccines etc...
"If the past is any indicator, the world won’t have a coronavirus vaccine for more than a year, probably longer. The mumps vaccine—considered the fastest ever approved—took four years to go from collecting viral samples to licensing a drug in 1967."
1967!?!??!?
Seriously?
Since you were 3 years old have you noticed any technological advancement!?!?!?
I hope you can access the following article in the UK:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/scientists-rush-to-develop-novel-coronavirus-vaccine-60-minutes-2020-03-22/
I can copy and paste if needed.
posted on 16/4/20
comment by Jonty (U4614)
posted 1 hour, 40 minutes ago
comment by JonnyLosAngeles (My Dad was made in Leeds) עם ישראל חי (U9756)
posted 6 minutes ago
If "full lockdown" is 100 and life as we knew it in January was 0, do you think she meant going from 100 to 0, or going from 100 to a lower number, likely far north of 0?
I think PM (what a lovely man) chose to interpret it as going from 100 to 0
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You would have to ask her, the point is she said, fit Stevie to say otherwise is incorrect.
__________________________________________
You don't have an opinion on what she meant?
Really?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think my opinion has been more than clear in this thread.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, you think English clubs should be bailed out by FIFA.
If that's not true then what clubs were you talking about?
posted on 17/4/20
I love that Jonty is the only one that is right and everyone else is wrong. It's hilarious.
South Korea has already told us that 91 people have retested positive after being cleared. That means there is no immunity, and no vaccine.
What's more, we know this virus mutates. Fast. And under lockdown conditions, each country is its own environment - simple evolution shows us that different organisms evolve differently in different environments. So the virus you may be immune to in one country will not offer you immunity in another.
This suggests the virus is going to continue until we are all dead. It's an extinction phase.
So we may as well enjoy what we can - bring back football.
Every one of your arguments is a nuclear woe-is-me claim Jonty - there are risks in life every time we breathe, eat and move. We will have to return to some sort of normality at some point, but I predict it will not be the normality we used to have.
And enclosed training pitches and grounds with no fans mean that risks are at their lowest. And the time for the matches being possible is possibly mid-May - while players could be training from tomorrow.
And when was the last time you heard of a player being hospitalised from doing cardio and strength training? Pulled muscle maybe, but hospital? When was the last time?
posted on 17/4/20
Progress?
Covid-19 patients recovering quickly after getting experimental drug remdesivir
By Maggie Fox, CNN
Thu April 16, 2020
(CNN)Covid-19 patients who are getting an experimental drug called remdesivir have been recovering quickly, with most going home in days, STAT News reported Thursday after it obtained a video of a conversation about the trial.
The patients taking part in a clinical trial of the drug have all had severe respiratory symptoms and fever, but were able to leave the hospital after less than a week of treatment, STAT quoted the doctor leading the trial as saying.
"The best news is that most of our patients have already been discharged, which is great. We've only had two patients perish," Dr. Kathleen Mullane, an infectious disease specialist at the University of Chicago who is leading the clinical trial, said in the video.
What we know about the state of coronavirus treatments, vaccines and antibody tests
What we know about the state of coronavirus treatments, vaccines and antibody tests
Mullane did not immediately respond to a request for comment from CNN. The university said it would comment once the official results of the trial were ready.
There is no approved therapy for the Covid-19, which can cause severe pneumonia and acute respiratory distress syndrome in some patients. But the National Institutes of Health is organizing trials of several drugs and other treatments, among them remdesivir.
The drug, made by Gilead Sciences, was tested against Ebola with little success, but multiple studies in animals showed the drug could both prevent and treat coronaviruses related to Covid-19, including SARS (Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome) and MERS (Middle East Respiratory Syndrome).
Back in February, the World Health Organization said remdesivir showed potential against Covid-19.
STAT said it obtained and viewed a copy of the video discussion Mullane had last week with colleagues about the trial.
"Most of our patients are severe and most of them are leaving at six days, so that tells us duration of therapy doesn't have to be 10 days," she was quoted as saying.
However, the trial does not include what's known as a control group, so it will be difficult to say whether the drug is truly helping patients recover better. With a control arm, some patients do not receive the drug being tested so that doctors can determine whether it's the drug that is really affecting their condition.
Trials of the drug are ongoing at dozens of other clinical centers, as well. Gilead is sponsoring tests of the drug in 2,400 patients with severe Covid-19 symptoms in 152 trial sites around the world. It's also testing the drug in 1,600 patients with moderate symptoms at 169 hospitals and clinics around the world.
Gilead said it expected results from the trial by the end of the month.
"We understand the urgent need for a COVID-19 treatment and the resulting interest in data on our investigational antiviral drug remdesivir," the company said in a statement to CNN. But it said a few stories about patients are just that -- stories.
"The totality of the data need to be analyzed in order to draw any conclusions from the trial. Anecdotal reports, while encouraging, do not provide the statistical power necessary to determine the safety and efficacy profile of remdesivir as a treatment for Covid-19," Gilead said.
posted on 17/4/20
And herein lies the problem, I've given actual quotes from actual scientists who have been asked about the issue and the counter argument is using CNN reporting on a leaked video and the source declining to comment, was it CNN who reported on the nurse refusing to work because of lack of PPE and then the world found out the video was a fake?
Jonny, the point about the article I posted on vaccines, which from your comments I'm assuming you haven't actually read, is that it takes a long time to create a vaccine and indeed for the 4 coronaviruses that affect humans that they have not yet created a vaccine, despite medical advances. You can dance around that all you like but these are facts.
With regards to Dorries comments, you are doing teh same as Piers Morgan does, trying to interpret, trying to force words into others mouths.
At the risk of repeating myself, for the sake of clarity, lockdowns will ebb and flow, being released to some degree, re-instated etc until we have a vaccine.
And unless we are prepared to just live with covid19 then everyone will need immunity or vaccine and when you look at the facts about vaccines and listen to medical experts and not CNN, the chances of developing one within 12 months are slim to none.
I don't like that any more than the next person. My living has disappeared, my kids education has all but disappeared and I'm starting to see friends and acquaintances lose their lives to this, but when faced with scientific issues, I'll listen to what the scientists are saying and have been saying repeatedly.
posted on 17/4/20
The fake nurse story reported by CNN:
https://www.ccn.com/covid-19-unit-nurse-says-hospital-forbade-her-to-wear-n95-mask/
posted on 17/4/20
sigh !!
posted on 17/4/20
comment by Jonty (U4614)
posted 1 hour, 34 minutes ago
The fake nurse story reported by CNN:
https://www.ccn.com/covid-19-unit-nurse-says-hospital-forbade-her-to-wear-n95-mask/
--------------------------------------------------------------------
This is insane and tragic. First I've seen it.
So its fake news or what? I'm not sure what you just said there.
posted on 17/4/20
comment by Jonty (U4614)
posted 1 hour, 41 minutes ago
And herein lies the problem, I've given actual quotes from actual scientists who have been asked about the issue and the counter argument is using CNN reporting on a leaked video and the source declining to comment, was it CNN who reported on the nurse refusing to work because of lack of PPE and then the world found out the video was a fake?
Jonny, the point about the article I posted on vaccines, which from your comments I'm assuming you haven't actually read, is that it takes a long time to create a vaccine and indeed for the 4 coronaviruses that affect humans that they have not yet created a vaccine, despite medical advances. You can dance around that all you like but these are facts.
With regards to Dorries comments, you are doing teh same as Piers Morgan does, trying to interpret, trying to force words into others mouths.
At the risk of repeating myself, for the sake of clarity, lockdowns will ebb and flow, being released to some degree, re-instated etc until we have a vaccine.
And unless we are prepared to just live with covid19 then everyone will need immunity or vaccine and when you look at the facts about vaccines and listen to medical experts and not CNN, the chances of developing one within 12 months are slim to none.
I don't like that any more than the next person. My living has disappeared, my kids education has all but disappeared and I'm starting to see friends and acquaintances lose their lives to this, but when faced with scientific issues, I'll listen to what the scientists are saying and have been saying repeatedly.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What about new information and knowledge about Covid that could come out at anytime, even tomorrow, or the next month, you never know.
New info and research would change the opinions of these experts. In fact, opinions and predictions have changed with the discovery of new facts since this outbreak started. Its scientific to have an open mind and if new info comes out the scientists could change their opinions.
They are repeatedly stating that its too early to decide anything. We have to wait and football has to wait too. Canceling the season is on the table but its too early to be sure it wont turn out to be a huge mistake that actually puts clubs in more danger than they possibly could have been. This is the best approach whether you want to admit that or not.
posted on 17/4/20
Ok enough speculating let’s just see what happens. You believe what you want, be depressed and negative if that makes you feel better. This has just become silly.
posted on 17/4/20
comment by JonnyLosAngeles (My Dad was made in Leeds) עם ישראל חי (U9756)
posted 6 minutes ago
Ok enough speculating let’s just see what happens. You believe what you want, be depressed and negative if that makes you feel better. This has just become silly.
-----------------------
at least he's consistant, I guess
posted on 17/4/20
I’m Not depressed at all, I’m just presenting you with facts rather than basing my thoughts on unreliable media.
It’s by listening to scientists rather than CNN that I have hope in the results from Germany about transmission methods which their data is the basis for the following:
“There is no significant risk of catching the disease when you go shopping. Severe outbreaks of the infection were always a result of people being closer together over a longer period of time, for example the après- ski parties in Ischgl, Austria.” He could also not find any evidence of ‘living’ viruses on surfaces. “When we took samples from door handles, phones or toilets it has not been possible to cultivate the virus in the laboratory on the basis of these swabs….”
You can call that depression, I call it medical research which offers a hugely positive way forward for society.
posted on 17/4/20
Bundesinstitute für Risikobewertung!..
"Federal institutes for risk assessment"
https://www.bfr.bund.de/en/can_the_new_type_of_coronavirus_be_transmitted_via_food_and_objects_-244090.html
posted on 17/4/20
‘The Independent has seen a letter sent by the EFL to all club members detailing a plan that recommends a return-to-training date for players of 16 May, should the level of lockdown be eased next month, and that while a return date has not been officially rubber-stamped clubs have been instructed to prepare for a resumption 'at short notice'.
posted on 17/4/20
Premier League clubs remain united in their desire to finish the season, but the controversial proposal of completing the campaign by June 30 was not raised in Friday's meeting.
All top-flight clubs were represented on the video call in which the primary topic of conversation was a debate over models for completing the season.
No representative in attendance raised the idea of finishing the season by June 30 and the issues of pay cuts and transfer windows were also not debated.
A Premier League spokesperson said: "We are acutely aware of the distress COVID-19 is causing and our thoughts are with all those directly affected by the pandemic.
"In common with other businesses and industries, the Premier League and our clubs are working through complex planning scenarios. We are actively engaging with stakeholders, including broadcast partners, and our aim is to ensure we are in a position to resume playing when it is safe to do so and with the full support of the Government.
"The health and wellbeing of players, coaches, managers, club staff and supporters are our priority and the League will only restart when medical guidance allows.
"Today's shareholders' meeting provided an opportunity to discuss possible scheduling models. It remains our objective to complete the 2019/20 season but at this stage all dates are tentative while the impact of COVID-19 develops.
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11661/11974479/premier-league-united-on-playing-season-no-june-30-finish-or-transfer-window-talks
posted on 18/4/20
PL looking at a best case scenario of matches starting up again in mid June, worst case October. I'd guess the Championship will be looking to do similar.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/apr/17/premier-league-could-return-by-mid-june-in-best-case-scenario-football
Page 5 of 5