comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 40 seconds ago
comment by Maul Person (U12977)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 3 minutes ago
What are you asking me for? I don't know.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So why are you speaking on something you know not-a-lot about...?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I am not allowed to ask questions on something I want to know more about? How do we ever learn if we can't gain information on something we know little about?
What a silly question.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You're making assertions more so than genuinely seeking understanding. But whatever man. You do you.
comment by Maul Person (U12977)
posted 29 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 40 seconds ago
comment by Maul Person (U12977)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 3 minutes ago
What are you asking me for? I don't know.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So why are you speaking on something you know not-a-lot about...?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I am not allowed to ask questions on something I want to know more about? How do we ever learn if we can't gain information on something we know little about?
What a silly question.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You're making assertions more so than genuinely seeking understanding. But whatever man. You do you.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Am I? Which assertions did I make?
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Maul Person (U12977)
posted 29 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 40 seconds ago
comment by Maul Person (U12977)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 3 minutes ago
What are you asking me for? I don't know.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So why are you speaking on something you know not-a-lot about...?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I am not allowed to ask questions on something I want to know more about? How do we ever learn if we can't gain information on something we know little about?
What a silly question.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You're making assertions more so than genuinely seeking understanding. But whatever man. You do you.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Am I? Which assertions did I make?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
One example: "Whilst those figures are facts, that doesn't prove what you're saying it does. You would have to prove that crimes committed, more so violent crimes, aren't proportionate."
comment by Maul Person (U12977)
posted 50 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Maul Person (U12977)
posted 29 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 40 seconds ago
comment by Maul Person (U12977)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 3 minutes ago
What are you asking me for? I don't know.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So why are you speaking on something you know not-a-lot about...?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I am not allowed to ask questions on something I want to know more about? How do we ever learn if we can't gain information on something we know little about?
What a silly question.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You're making assertions more so than genuinely seeking understanding. But whatever man. You do you.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Am I? Which assertions did I make?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
One example: "Whilst those figures are facts, that doesn't prove what you're saying it does. You would have to prove that crimes committed, more so violent crimes, aren't proportionate."
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So?
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 12 seconds ago
comment by Maul Person (U12977)
posted 50 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Maul Person (U12977)
posted 29 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 40 seconds ago
comment by Maul Person (U12977)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 3 minutes ago
What are you asking me for? I don't know.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So why are you speaking on something you know not-a-lot about...?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I am not allowed to ask questions on something I want to know more about? How do we ever learn if we can't gain information on something we know little about?
What a silly question.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You're making assertions more so than genuinely seeking understanding. But whatever man. You do you.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Am I? Which assertions did I make?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
One example: "Whilst those figures are facts, that doesn't prove what you're saying it does. You would have to prove that crimes committed, more so violent crimes, aren't proportionate."
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Like I said, you do you. Good on you is you actually ARE looking to understand but if you can't get the simple concept of disproportionate targeting, you're off to a bad start.
comment by Maul Person (U12977)
posted 5 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 12 seconds ago
comment by Maul Person (U12977)
posted 50 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Maul Person (U12977)
posted 29 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 40 seconds ago
comment by Maul Person (U12977)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 3 minutes ago
What are you asking me for? I don't know.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So why are you speaking on something you know not-a-lot about...?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I am not allowed to ask questions on something I want to know more about? How do we ever learn if we can't gain information on something we know little about?
What a silly question.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You're making assertions more so than genuinely seeking understanding. But whatever man. You do you.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Am I? Which assertions did I make?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
One example: "Whilst those figures are facts, that doesn't prove what you're saying it does. You would have to prove that crimes committed, more so violent crimes, aren't proportionate."
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Like I said, you do you. Good on you is you actually ARE looking to understand but if you can't get the simple concept of disproportionate targeting, you're off to a bad start.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I looked at statistics shown and stated that doesn't prove what he was saying. I haven't made any assertion on the issue. I have asked questions.
I myself believe there is a problem, with the limited knowledge I have on the subject but that is simply going by comments made by black people(mostly) in the comment sections of videos, like in this article. There can't be this amount of people stating there is a problem and there not be one. However I was deliberately refraining from making an assertion, as I don't have enough knowledge of it.
To the OP's question, I think there is an argument against black people defending themselves. They wouldn't win. They are already being ritually humiliated and disproportionately arrested and incarcerated (how do you account for 13% of a national population yet 33% of the incarcerated?) and vigilanteism would just make it harder for all black people. The solution, harder and longer term, lies more with "fixing" the police. Better training, more accountability, harsher penalties for infractions eg removing the seeming protection of a grand jury which almost always decides that a police officer's actions were legitimate or making a police dept liable for any payment made to a victim (someone suggested linking such payments to the police pension fund) or a national blackisting from working in the police ie making it so a police officer cannot simply move to another state and sign up as has happened.
The simple truth is that people will commit crimes, whatever their race or socio-economic status. What needs to be in place is a system where those who do (based on evidence) are appropriately detained and those who don't are left alone.
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Maul Person (U12977)
posted 5 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 12 seconds ago
comment by Maul Person (U12977)
posted 50 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Maul Person (U12977)
posted 29 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 40 seconds ago
comment by Maul Person (U12977)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 3 minutes ago
What are you asking me for? I don't know.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So why are you speaking on something you know not-a-lot about...?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I am not allowed to ask questions on something I want to know more about? How do we ever learn if we can't gain information on something we know little about?
What a silly question.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You're making assertions more so than genuinely seeking understanding. But whatever man. You do you.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Am I? Which assertions did I make?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
One example: "Whilst those figures are facts, that doesn't prove what you're saying it does. You would have to prove that crimes committed, more so violent crimes, aren't proportionate."
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Like I said, you do you. Good on you is you actually ARE looking to understand but if you can't get the simple concept of disproportionate targeting, you're off to a bad start.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I looked at statistics shown and stated that doesn't prove what he was saying. I haven't made any assertion on the issue. I have asked questions.
I myself believe there is a problem, with the limited knowledge I have on the subject but that is simply going by comments made by black people(mostly) in the comment sections of videos, like in this article. There can't be this amount of people stating there is a problem and there not be one. However I was deliberately refraining from making an assertion, as I don't have enough knowledge of it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
and there you have it
no amount of video evidence, victim testimonies etc will ever be enough for some
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 39 minutes ago
comment by Maul Person (U12977)
posted 18 seconds ago
comment by Gillespie Road. (U18361)
posted 36 minutes ago
It's threads like these that tell you just how many posters we have here, who have next to no personal interaction with black people in their day to day lives. Nothing beyond surface level, at the very least.
The sheer lack of self awareness and empathy today would make Marie Antoinette cry.
I'm pretty sure many of the same people throwing statistics about the place will be just as "puzzled" the next time people take to the streets after an incident like this.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I was going to write something along these lines to the effect of: what happens when white people talk about issues affecting black people. It's kinda disgusting but not particularly surprising.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think you need to be black to appreciate what happened. Although when I watched the video I can't see anything that portrays racism. It was an absolute disgrace what that cop did but how could you prove it was a racist act? They would need to look into his history to find any instance of it, or link. You simply can't tell from this video.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How does a man who has been detained for alleged forgery die? How does a man who has in no way resisted arrest and begins his detainment handcuffed sitting against a wall end up dead with an accusation (proven false by video evidence) of resisting arrest (a common one used by police, particularly against black people).
But if we do look at this officer's history, he's been involved in three previous "incidents" and has had several complaints made against him.
Racism isn't about the N-word. At its root is the system that allows people with power to behave and act in a way that dehumanises others. Poor policing does not account for choking a man to death by using an illegal hold on him (while he is handcuffed) for 9 minutes.
What's crazier is that this gets huge headlines in the UK when it's sadly become a regular thing in the US, yet kids running around London with zombie/rambo knifes, stabbing each other on a daily basis, rarely gets any media attention.
Some parts of London have never been so dangerous for a kid growing up, where your postcode determines where you can safely go. I'd hate to have to bring up kids in our capital nowadays 😔
comment by FootyMcfootfoot (U21853)
posted 17 minutes ago
What's crazier is that this gets huge headlines in the UK when it's sadly become a regular thing in the US, yet kids running around London with zombie/rambo knifes, stabbing each other on a daily basis, rarely gets any media attention.
Some parts of London have never been so dangerous for a kid growing up, where your postcode determines where you can safely go. I'd hate to have to bring up kids in our capital nowadays 😔
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not sure where you live but the knife and gang issues in London (the UK) gets a lot of attention. To the point that they invariably make it a singularly black issue.
comment by new cdm obsesion - julian garner (U13920)
posted 43 minutes ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Maul Person (U12977)
posted 5 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 12 seconds ago
comment by Maul Person (U12977)
posted 50 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Maul Person (U12977)
posted 29 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 40 seconds ago
comment by Maul Person (U12977)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 3 minutes ago
What are you asking me for? I don't know.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So why are you speaking on something you know not-a-lot about...?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I am not allowed to ask questions on something I want to know more about? How do we ever learn if we can't gain information on something we know little about?
What a silly question.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You're making assertions more so than genuinely seeking understanding. But whatever man. You do you.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Am I? Which assertions did I make?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
One example: "Whilst those figures are facts, that doesn't prove what you're saying it does. You would have to prove that crimes committed, more so violent crimes, aren't proportionate."
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Like I said, you do you. Good on you is you actually ARE looking to understand but if you can't get the simple concept of disproportionate targeting, you're off to a bad start.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I looked at statistics shown and stated that doesn't prove what he was saying. I haven't made any assertion on the issue. I have asked questions.
I myself believe there is a problem, with the limited knowledge I have on the subject but that is simply going by comments made by black people(mostly) in the comment sections of videos, like in this article. There can't be this amount of people stating there is a problem and there not be one. However I was deliberately refraining from making an assertion, as I don't have enough knowledge of it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
and there you have it
no amount of video evidence, victim testimonies etc will ever be enough for some
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Huh? Words mean things.
Racism or not, I think it's obvious that a lot of American police seem to have p!ss poor training.
comment by The Welsh Xavi (U15412)
posted 36 seconds ago
Racism or not, I think it's obvious that a lot of American police seem to have p!ss poor training.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That was not a poor training incident. Its murder
Taking race out of the equation (last I read there are more white people who die in police custody than any other race), the police in the states are far to heavy handed and in my personal experience treat people in a very provocative manner.
Once my pal was driving on the highway, pulled over for going 10mph over the speed limit and wound up in cuffs even though he was nothing but cooperative.
Yeah it does feel like the US like to train positions of power to be intimidating, you even see it going through customs at airports, they can't just act normal they have to treat you like a criminal.
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 7 minutes ago
"Taking race out of the equation..."
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Interesting statement in a conversation specifically about race.
comment by Maul Person (U12977)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 7 minutes ago
"Taking race out of the equation..."
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Interesting statement in a conversation specifically about race.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not really the point I made has no bearing on race.
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 41 seconds ago
comment by Maul Person (U12977)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 7 minutes ago
"Taking race out of the equation..."
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Interesting statement in a conversation specifically about race.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not really the point I made has no bearing on race.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Tbf your first point did ("there are more white people who die in police custody...". Secondly, this article wasn't about police training; it was about the black experience with police and a possible outcome should things tip over a threshold.
comment by Maul Person (U12977)
posted 1 hour, 16 minutes ago
comment by FootyMcfootfoot (U21853)
posted 17 minutes ago
What's crazier is that this gets huge headlines in the UK when it's sadly become a regular thing in the US, yet kids running around London with zombie/rambo knifes, stabbing each other on a daily basis, rarely gets any media attention.
Some parts of London have never been so dangerous for a kid growing up, where your postcode determines where you can safely go. I'd hate to have to bring up kids in our capital nowadays 😔
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not sure where you live but the knife and gang issues in London (the UK) gets a lot of attention. To the point that they invariably make it a singularly black issue.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
See this is the thing. It's mentioned when an innocent person gets caught up in it but 90% isn't mentioned nationally.
Kids nowadays are going through this phase of UK trap music. It's basically post code wars on a massive scale and there are loads of gangs that go out stabbing OPS (rivals) on a daily basis. The % reported is tiny tbh.
Some of em are so barbaric and examples of family/best mates turning on each other cos they are in different codes, it's mind blowing how self destructive it is. It's on our doorsteps too and with this music scene and 'county lines' being such crazy money, it's in Birmingham, Manchester, etc.
Not as many gang deaths linked to this scene as there aren't as many gangs. London has some gangs that rep an estate, others a whole district. Something mad needs to happen cos kids are being basically forced to pick sides, and then just pray they don't get caught 'slipping' on their own when they have to leave their area.
The fact that the kids that 'wet up' (stab) rivals then go and confess on trap songs, and become idols to their fans cos of it, is one of the most toxic things I've seen in the UK and it's music. Most parents are oblivious that the songs their kids play are basically murder confessions.... I'll never understand it tbh
comment by Maul Person (U12977)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 41 seconds ago
comment by Maul Person (U12977)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 7 minutes ago
"Taking race out of the equation..."
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Interesting statement in a conversation specifically about race.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not really the point I made has no bearing on race.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Tbf your first point did ("there are more white people who die in police custody...". Secondly, this article wasn't about police training; it was about the black experience with police and a possible outcome should things tip over a threshold.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Firstly, I was merely pointing out a statistic that indicates the issue is less about race and more about police abusing their power. Which was my point.
However, I do think there are race issues in some States. People say America forgetting it's really 52 countries with their own laws and cultures. To say it's a nationwide problem is a little ignorant.
I do think there are areas of the US that need to look at this issue very closely, but I also don't believe it should be down to black people to resolve it. White, Hispanic, Asian and African Americans should do so together. I wouldn't blame them for some kind of protest, but until the police change, how can the people change? It's not them aggravating the issue.
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 10 minutes ago
Taking race out of the equation (last I read there are more white people who die in police custody than any other race), the police in the states are far to heavy handed and in my personal experience treat people in a very provocative manner.
Once my pal was driving on the highway, pulled over for going 10mph over the speed limit and wound up in cuffs even though he was nothing but cooperative.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
i agree with you the police in the states are definitely heavy handed in general compared to most countries.
i have 2 theories
1)With everyone having access to a gun that can there is a culture of fear/protect yourself first before the public. It should be the other way round
2)This culture has been allowed to flourish by the culture of coverups to protect your colleagues if you want them to have your back.
while arguement can be made for these culture it has also let a very small minority of rotten cops get away with questionable actions for decades while rising up the ranks and crushing those within the force that dare speak up. a few rotten apples have been allowed to corrupt the whole tree. So the system is broken and while there are many amazing polic officers there is a system that will not hold to account someone who is abusing this powers.
i respect that you had a bad experience and someone ended up in cuffs when they maybe shouldn't have because an officer was abusing his power. For a black american in a similar interaction like you described, a majority would not be afraid of ending up in cuffs but dead.
As far as NUMBERS go, of course it stands to reason that the white experience would be greater. After all, there are approximately 235 million white people out of an approximate 330 million people. Compare that to approximately 40 million black people of that same total. So it makes sense that MORE white people would be arrested / killed etc in terms of numbers. This has been calculated to be in proportion to the overall number of white people.
The issue is the PROPORTIONALITY of these same experiences for black people. For a subsection that makes up 12% of a population, surely you cannot dispute there is an issue that, as above, they make up 33% of the incarcerated? Or that they are 5x more likely to be stopped and 2.5x more likely to be shot by police? No-one is disputing training but there is a very pervasive issue in relation to black people. What I'm suggesting is that you try not to separate the two especially if that correlation is a core part of the conversation.
"With everyone having access to a gun that can there is a culture of fear/protect yourself first before the public. It should be the other way round"
More guns will not solve anything. Except more death.
People predicting the Helter Skelter have always proven to be wrong and it largely comes from one misunderstanding. Whilst many of the racists, supremacists and powers that be are indeed bloodthirsty and just waiting for an excuse, black people are not. Black people grieve the loss of another of their own. They look at the victims of this insanity and see their own sons, daughters, mothers, fathers, sisters and brother lying under a policeman's boot. What they want is to live and be left to live.
Grief may spill over into riots, but it generally doesn't. Even in Minneapolis, I've seen videos of the arsonists. They were white men dressed in serious black gear. Whether they are police or another group is anyone's guess but what they are not is the black people who just want to stop being killed for their skin colour.
It never will turn to a race war for the simple fact that they just want to live. People are generally decent like that.
Sign in if you want to comment
Who remembers Eric Garner?
Page 3 of 5
posted on 28/5/20
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 40 seconds ago
comment by Maul Person (U12977)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 3 minutes ago
What are you asking me for? I don't know.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So why are you speaking on something you know not-a-lot about...?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I am not allowed to ask questions on something I want to know more about? How do we ever learn if we can't gain information on something we know little about?
What a silly question.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You're making assertions more so than genuinely seeking understanding. But whatever man. You do you.
posted on 28/5/20
comment by Maul Person (U12977)
posted 29 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 40 seconds ago
comment by Maul Person (U12977)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 3 minutes ago
What are you asking me for? I don't know.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So why are you speaking on something you know not-a-lot about...?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I am not allowed to ask questions on something I want to know more about? How do we ever learn if we can't gain information on something we know little about?
What a silly question.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You're making assertions more so than genuinely seeking understanding. But whatever man. You do you.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Am I? Which assertions did I make?
posted on 28/5/20
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Maul Person (U12977)
posted 29 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 40 seconds ago
comment by Maul Person (U12977)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 3 minutes ago
What are you asking me for? I don't know.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So why are you speaking on something you know not-a-lot about...?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I am not allowed to ask questions on something I want to know more about? How do we ever learn if we can't gain information on something we know little about?
What a silly question.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You're making assertions more so than genuinely seeking understanding. But whatever man. You do you.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Am I? Which assertions did I make?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
One example: "Whilst those figures are facts, that doesn't prove what you're saying it does. You would have to prove that crimes committed, more so violent crimes, aren't proportionate."
posted on 28/5/20
comment by Maul Person (U12977)
posted 50 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Maul Person (U12977)
posted 29 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 40 seconds ago
comment by Maul Person (U12977)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 3 minutes ago
What are you asking me for? I don't know.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So why are you speaking on something you know not-a-lot about...?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I am not allowed to ask questions on something I want to know more about? How do we ever learn if we can't gain information on something we know little about?
What a silly question.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You're making assertions more so than genuinely seeking understanding. But whatever man. You do you.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Am I? Which assertions did I make?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
One example: "Whilst those figures are facts, that doesn't prove what you're saying it does. You would have to prove that crimes committed, more so violent crimes, aren't proportionate."
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So?
posted on 28/5/20
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 12 seconds ago
comment by Maul Person (U12977)
posted 50 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Maul Person (U12977)
posted 29 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 40 seconds ago
comment by Maul Person (U12977)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 3 minutes ago
What are you asking me for? I don't know.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So why are you speaking on something you know not-a-lot about...?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I am not allowed to ask questions on something I want to know more about? How do we ever learn if we can't gain information on something we know little about?
What a silly question.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You're making assertions more so than genuinely seeking understanding. But whatever man. You do you.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Am I? Which assertions did I make?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
One example: "Whilst those figures are facts, that doesn't prove what you're saying it does. You would have to prove that crimes committed, more so violent crimes, aren't proportionate."
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Like I said, you do you. Good on you is you actually ARE looking to understand but if you can't get the simple concept of disproportionate targeting, you're off to a bad start.
posted on 28/5/20
comment by Maul Person (U12977)
posted 5 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 12 seconds ago
comment by Maul Person (U12977)
posted 50 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Maul Person (U12977)
posted 29 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 40 seconds ago
comment by Maul Person (U12977)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 3 minutes ago
What are you asking me for? I don't know.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So why are you speaking on something you know not-a-lot about...?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I am not allowed to ask questions on something I want to know more about? How do we ever learn if we can't gain information on something we know little about?
What a silly question.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You're making assertions more so than genuinely seeking understanding. But whatever man. You do you.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Am I? Which assertions did I make?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
One example: "Whilst those figures are facts, that doesn't prove what you're saying it does. You would have to prove that crimes committed, more so violent crimes, aren't proportionate."
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Like I said, you do you. Good on you is you actually ARE looking to understand but if you can't get the simple concept of disproportionate targeting, you're off to a bad start.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I looked at statistics shown and stated that doesn't prove what he was saying. I haven't made any assertion on the issue. I have asked questions.
I myself believe there is a problem, with the limited knowledge I have on the subject but that is simply going by comments made by black people(mostly) in the comment sections of videos, like in this article. There can't be this amount of people stating there is a problem and there not be one. However I was deliberately refraining from making an assertion, as I don't have enough knowledge of it.
posted on 28/5/20
To the OP's question, I think there is an argument against black people defending themselves. They wouldn't win. They are already being ritually humiliated and disproportionately arrested and incarcerated (how do you account for 13% of a national population yet 33% of the incarcerated?) and vigilanteism would just make it harder for all black people. The solution, harder and longer term, lies more with "fixing" the police. Better training, more accountability, harsher penalties for infractions eg removing the seeming protection of a grand jury which almost always decides that a police officer's actions were legitimate or making a police dept liable for any payment made to a victim (someone suggested linking such payments to the police pension fund) or a national blackisting from working in the police ie making it so a police officer cannot simply move to another state and sign up as has happened.
The simple truth is that people will commit crimes, whatever their race or socio-economic status. What needs to be in place is a system where those who do (based on evidence) are appropriately detained and those who don't are left alone.
posted on 28/5/20
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Maul Person (U12977)
posted 5 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 12 seconds ago
comment by Maul Person (U12977)
posted 50 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Maul Person (U12977)
posted 29 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 40 seconds ago
comment by Maul Person (U12977)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 3 minutes ago
What are you asking me for? I don't know.
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So why are you speaking on something you know not-a-lot about...?
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I am not allowed to ask questions on something I want to know more about? How do we ever learn if we can't gain information on something we know little about?
What a silly question.
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You're making assertions more so than genuinely seeking understanding. But whatever man. You do you.
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Am I? Which assertions did I make?
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One example: "Whilst those figures are facts, that doesn't prove what you're saying it does. You would have to prove that crimes committed, more so violent crimes, aren't proportionate."
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So?
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Like I said, you do you. Good on you is you actually ARE looking to understand but if you can't get the simple concept of disproportionate targeting, you're off to a bad start.
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I looked at statistics shown and stated that doesn't prove what he was saying. I haven't made any assertion on the issue. I have asked questions.
I myself believe there is a problem, with the limited knowledge I have on the subject but that is simply going by comments made by black people(mostly) in the comment sections of videos, like in this article. There can't be this amount of people stating there is a problem and there not be one. However I was deliberately refraining from making an assertion, as I don't have enough knowledge of it.
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and there you have it
no amount of video evidence, victim testimonies etc will ever be enough for some
posted on 28/5/20
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 39 minutes ago
comment by Maul Person (U12977)
posted 18 seconds ago
comment by Gillespie Road. (U18361)
posted 36 minutes ago
It's threads like these that tell you just how many posters we have here, who have next to no personal interaction with black people in their day to day lives. Nothing beyond surface level, at the very least.
The sheer lack of self awareness and empathy today would make Marie Antoinette cry.
I'm pretty sure many of the same people throwing statistics about the place will be just as "puzzled" the next time people take to the streets after an incident like this.
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I was going to write something along these lines to the effect of: what happens when white people talk about issues affecting black people. It's kinda disgusting but not particularly surprising.
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I don't think you need to be black to appreciate what happened. Although when I watched the video I can't see anything that portrays racism. It was an absolute disgrace what that cop did but how could you prove it was a racist act? They would need to look into his history to find any instance of it, or link. You simply can't tell from this video.
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How does a man who has been detained for alleged forgery die? How does a man who has in no way resisted arrest and begins his detainment handcuffed sitting against a wall end up dead with an accusation (proven false by video evidence) of resisting arrest (a common one used by police, particularly against black people).
But if we do look at this officer's history, he's been involved in three previous "incidents" and has had several complaints made against him.
Racism isn't about the N-word. At its root is the system that allows people with power to behave and act in a way that dehumanises others. Poor policing does not account for choking a man to death by using an illegal hold on him (while he is handcuffed) for 9 minutes.
posted on 28/5/20
What's crazier is that this gets huge headlines in the UK when it's sadly become a regular thing in the US, yet kids running around London with zombie/rambo knifes, stabbing each other on a daily basis, rarely gets any media attention.
Some parts of London have never been so dangerous for a kid growing up, where your postcode determines where you can safely go. I'd hate to have to bring up kids in our capital nowadays 😔
posted on 28/5/20
comment by FootyMcfootfoot (U21853)
posted 17 minutes ago
What's crazier is that this gets huge headlines in the UK when it's sadly become a regular thing in the US, yet kids running around London with zombie/rambo knifes, stabbing each other on a daily basis, rarely gets any media attention.
Some parts of London have never been so dangerous for a kid growing up, where your postcode determines where you can safely go. I'd hate to have to bring up kids in our capital nowadays 😔
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I'm not sure where you live but the knife and gang issues in London (the UK) gets a lot of attention. To the point that they invariably make it a singularly black issue.
posted on 28/5/20
comment by new cdm obsesion - julian garner (U13920)
posted 43 minutes ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Maul Person (U12977)
posted 5 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 12 seconds ago
comment by Maul Person (U12977)
posted 50 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Maul Person (U12977)
posted 29 seconds ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 40 seconds ago
comment by Maul Person (U12977)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 3 minutes ago
What are you asking me for? I don't know.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So why are you speaking on something you know not-a-lot about...?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I am not allowed to ask questions on something I want to know more about? How do we ever learn if we can't gain information on something we know little about?
What a silly question.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You're making assertions more so than genuinely seeking understanding. But whatever man. You do you.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Am I? Which assertions did I make?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
One example: "Whilst those figures are facts, that doesn't prove what you're saying it does. You would have to prove that crimes committed, more so violent crimes, aren't proportionate."
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Like I said, you do you. Good on you is you actually ARE looking to understand but if you can't get the simple concept of disproportionate targeting, you're off to a bad start.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I looked at statistics shown and stated that doesn't prove what he was saying. I haven't made any assertion on the issue. I have asked questions.
I myself believe there is a problem, with the limited knowledge I have on the subject but that is simply going by comments made by black people(mostly) in the comment sections of videos, like in this article. There can't be this amount of people stating there is a problem and there not be one. However I was deliberately refraining from making an assertion, as I don't have enough knowledge of it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
and there you have it
no amount of video evidence, victim testimonies etc will ever be enough for some
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Huh? Words mean things.
posted on 28/5/20
Racism or not, I think it's obvious that a lot of American police seem to have p!ss poor training.
posted on 28/5/20
comment by The Welsh Xavi (U15412)
posted 36 seconds ago
Racism or not, I think it's obvious that a lot of American police seem to have p!ss poor training.
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That was not a poor training incident. Its murder
posted on 28/5/20
Taking race out of the equation (last I read there are more white people who die in police custody than any other race), the police in the states are far to heavy handed and in my personal experience treat people in a very provocative manner.
Once my pal was driving on the highway, pulled over for going 10mph over the speed limit and wound up in cuffs even though he was nothing but cooperative.
posted on 28/5/20
Yeah it does feel like the US like to train positions of power to be intimidating, you even see it going through customs at airports, they can't just act normal they have to treat you like a criminal.
posted on 28/5/20
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 7 minutes ago
"Taking race out of the equation..."
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Interesting statement in a conversation specifically about race.
posted on 28/5/20
comment by Maul Person (U12977)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 7 minutes ago
"Taking race out of the equation..."
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Interesting statement in a conversation specifically about race.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not really the point I made has no bearing on race.
posted on 28/5/20
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 41 seconds ago
comment by Maul Person (U12977)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 7 minutes ago
"Taking race out of the equation..."
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Interesting statement in a conversation specifically about race.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not really the point I made has no bearing on race.
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Tbf your first point did ("there are more white people who die in police custody...". Secondly, this article wasn't about police training; it was about the black experience with police and a possible outcome should things tip over a threshold.
posted on 28/5/20
comment by Maul Person (U12977)
posted 1 hour, 16 minutes ago
comment by FootyMcfootfoot (U21853)
posted 17 minutes ago
What's crazier is that this gets huge headlines in the UK when it's sadly become a regular thing in the US, yet kids running around London with zombie/rambo knifes, stabbing each other on a daily basis, rarely gets any media attention.
Some parts of London have never been so dangerous for a kid growing up, where your postcode determines where you can safely go. I'd hate to have to bring up kids in our capital nowadays 😔
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not sure where you live but the knife and gang issues in London (the UK) gets a lot of attention. To the point that they invariably make it a singularly black issue.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
See this is the thing. It's mentioned when an innocent person gets caught up in it but 90% isn't mentioned nationally.
Kids nowadays are going through this phase of UK trap music. It's basically post code wars on a massive scale and there are loads of gangs that go out stabbing OPS (rivals) on a daily basis. The % reported is tiny tbh.
Some of em are so barbaric and examples of family/best mates turning on each other cos they are in different codes, it's mind blowing how self destructive it is. It's on our doorsteps too and with this music scene and 'county lines' being such crazy money, it's in Birmingham, Manchester, etc.
Not as many gang deaths linked to this scene as there aren't as many gangs. London has some gangs that rep an estate, others a whole district. Something mad needs to happen cos kids are being basically forced to pick sides, and then just pray they don't get caught 'slipping' on their own when they have to leave their area.
The fact that the kids that 'wet up' (stab) rivals then go and confess on trap songs, and become idols to their fans cos of it, is one of the most toxic things I've seen in the UK and it's music. Most parents are oblivious that the songs their kids play are basically murder confessions.... I'll never understand it tbh
posted on 28/5/20
comment by Maul Person (U12977)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 41 seconds ago
comment by Maul Person (U12977)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 7 minutes ago
"Taking race out of the equation..."
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Interesting statement in a conversation specifically about race.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not really the point I made has no bearing on race.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Tbf your first point did ("there are more white people who die in police custody...". Secondly, this article wasn't about police training; it was about the black experience with police and a possible outcome should things tip over a threshold.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Firstly, I was merely pointing out a statistic that indicates the issue is less about race and more about police abusing their power. Which was my point.
However, I do think there are race issues in some States. People say America forgetting it's really 52 countries with their own laws and cultures. To say it's a nationwide problem is a little ignorant.
I do think there are areas of the US that need to look at this issue very closely, but I also don't believe it should be down to black people to resolve it. White, Hispanic, Asian and African Americans should do so together. I wouldn't blame them for some kind of protest, but until the police change, how can the people change? It's not them aggravating the issue.
posted on 28/5/20
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 10 minutes ago
Taking race out of the equation (last I read there are more white people who die in police custody than any other race), the police in the states are far to heavy handed and in my personal experience treat people in a very provocative manner.
Once my pal was driving on the highway, pulled over for going 10mph over the speed limit and wound up in cuffs even though he was nothing but cooperative.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
i agree with you the police in the states are definitely heavy handed in general compared to most countries.
i have 2 theories
1)With everyone having access to a gun that can there is a culture of fear/protect yourself first before the public. It should be the other way round
2)This culture has been allowed to flourish by the culture of coverups to protect your colleagues if you want them to have your back.
while arguement can be made for these culture it has also let a very small minority of rotten cops get away with questionable actions for decades while rising up the ranks and crushing those within the force that dare speak up. a few rotten apples have been allowed to corrupt the whole tree. So the system is broken and while there are many amazing polic officers there is a system that will not hold to account someone who is abusing this powers.
i respect that you had a bad experience and someone ended up in cuffs when they maybe shouldn't have because an officer was abusing his power. For a black american in a similar interaction like you described, a majority would not be afraid of ending up in cuffs but dead.
posted on 28/5/20
As far as NUMBERS go, of course it stands to reason that the white experience would be greater. After all, there are approximately 235 million white people out of an approximate 330 million people. Compare that to approximately 40 million black people of that same total. So it makes sense that MORE white people would be arrested / killed etc in terms of numbers. This has been calculated to be in proportion to the overall number of white people.
The issue is the PROPORTIONALITY of these same experiences for black people. For a subsection that makes up 12% of a population, surely you cannot dispute there is an issue that, as above, they make up 33% of the incarcerated? Or that they are 5x more likely to be stopped and 2.5x more likely to be shot by police? No-one is disputing training but there is a very pervasive issue in relation to black people. What I'm suggesting is that you try not to separate the two especially if that correlation is a core part of the conversation.
posted on 28/5/20
"With everyone having access to a gun that can there is a culture of fear/protect yourself first before the public. It should be the other way round"
More guns will not solve anything. Except more death.
posted on 28/5/20
People predicting the Helter Skelter have always proven to be wrong and it largely comes from one misunderstanding. Whilst many of the racists, supremacists and powers that be are indeed bloodthirsty and just waiting for an excuse, black people are not. Black people grieve the loss of another of their own. They look at the victims of this insanity and see their own sons, daughters, mothers, fathers, sisters and brother lying under a policeman's boot. What they want is to live and be left to live.
Grief may spill over into riots, but it generally doesn't. Even in Minneapolis, I've seen videos of the arsonists. They were white men dressed in serious black gear. Whether they are police or another group is anyone's guess but what they are not is the black people who just want to stop being killed for their skin colour.
It never will turn to a race war for the simple fact that they just want to live. People are generally decent like that.
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