comment by Robb #456 (U22716)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Darren The King Fletcher (U10026)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Robb #456 (U22716)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Darren The King Fletcher (U10026)
posted 6 seconds ago
comment by Robb #456 (U22716)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by son of quebec (U8127)
posted 34 seconds ago
comment by Robb #456 (U22716)
posted 15 minutes ago
comment by manusince52 (U9692)
posted 15 seconds ago
I wonder if Poland and the Baltic states have minerals, if not they will just have to roll over, won't they?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They are in NATO. So they are much safer than Ukraine which has no such luck
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And you think this American government will honour it's agreements?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not particularly but there’s far more likely to be robust action to defend NATO countries - particularly by the European nations - than Ukraine for obvious reasons
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not with Trump in Putin’s pocket.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s just common sense though. European countries want to help Ukraine but they have to real compulsion to do so because Ukraine is just a non NaTO country. They’re doing the minimum to help but won’t put troops on the ground as it would be ruinous as deaths protecting a foreign country would face massive backlash at home for their people.
But whilst I doubt the average person on the street in France or Germany would be outraged if Russia one day tried to take a Baltic state - the fact that they’re in NATO leads to better acceptance that that will have to step in and help.
Even without the US.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But this is about America, with Trump in Putin’s pocket their obligations towards NATO are worthless.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not sure if you saw the OG post from MU52 but he was talking about if Poland is invaded should they roll over too. My response was that they are at least protected by NATO - even without the US so will have more options than Ukraine who have no such strong agreements (does the Budapest memorandum even count anymore?)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But if you take America out of the equation then it changes the whole game when it comes to European military guarantees with NATO and Ukraine.
comment by Darren The King Fletcher (U10026)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Robb #456 (U22716)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Darren The King Fletcher (U10026)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Robb #456 (U22716)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Darren The King Fletcher (U10026)
posted 6 seconds ago
comment by Robb #456 (U22716)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by son of quebec (U8127)
posted 34 seconds ago
comment by Robb #456 (U22716)
posted 15 minutes ago
comment by manusince52 (U9692)
posted 15 seconds ago
I wonder if Poland and the Baltic states have minerals, if not they will just have to roll over, won't they?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They are in NATO. So they are much safer than Ukraine which has no such luck
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And you think this American government will honour it's agreements?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not particularly but there’s far more likely to be robust action to defend NATO countries - particularly by the European nations - than Ukraine for obvious reasons
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not with Trump in Putin’s pocket.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s just common sense though. European countries want to help Ukraine but they have to real compulsion to do so because Ukraine is just a non NaTO country. They’re doing the minimum to help but won’t put troops on the ground as it would be ruinous as deaths protecting a foreign country would face massive backlash at home for their people.
But whilst I doubt the average person on the street in France or Germany would be outraged if Russia one day tried to take a Baltic state - the fact that they’re in NATO leads to better acceptance that that will have to step in and help.
Even without the US.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But this is about America, with Trump in Putin’s pocket their obligations towards NATO are worthless.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not sure if you saw the OG post from MU52 but he was talking about if Poland is invaded should they roll over too. My response was that they are at least protected by NATO - even without the US so will have more options than Ukraine who have no such strong agreements (does the Budapest memorandum even count anymore?)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But if you take America out of the equation then it changes the whole game when it comes to European military guarantees with NATO and Ukraine.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think we have crossed wires here.
MU52 was saying that what’s to stop Poland etc rolling over if Trump wants their minerals too. I said there’s a difference as they’re in NATO so countries have a ‘legal’ obligation to step in. Even if the US decided not to.
Not sure what you mean about military guarantees with Ukraine as I’m not sure there are any? Unless you mean that if NATO (minus the US) stepped foot in Ukraine there’s less chance of the US vetoing any attempts to help Ukraine like they have up until now as they won’t be involved?
*Putin wants their minerals (what’s even the difference now 😂)
comment by Robb #456 (U22716)
posted 1 minute ago
*Putin wants their minerals (what’s even the difference now 😂)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's another thing he wants from here. Cobalt Nickel Uranium amongst others.
comment by son of quebec (U8127)
posted 1 second ago
comment by Robb #456 (U22716)
posted 1 minute ago
*Putin wants their minerals (what’s even the difference now 😂)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's another thing he wants from here. Cobalt Nickel Uranium amongst others.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And Lithium. Something like 500K tonnes of it in Ukraine. Just what Musk desires.
I understand what you are saying, but my point is that legal guarantees now mean nothing given what America are doing. And Europe may not at this stage, but could well offer Ukraine military guarantees because Russia and America have facked the whole thing up. Treaties aren’t worth the paper they are printed on if nations don’t want to abide by them, and they are regularly ripped up when strategic aims change.
The old days of invading countries for oil seem rather quaint. A bygone era.
comment by Darren The King Fletcher (U10026)
posted 30 seconds ago
I understand what you are saying, but my point is that legal guarantees now mean nothing given what America are doing. And Europe may not at this stage, but could well offer Ukraine military guarantees because Russia and America have facked the whole thing up. Treaties aren’t worth the paper they are printed on if nations don’t want to abide by them, and they are regularly ripped up when strategic aims change.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Possibly but treaties or not, Ukraine is one thing and the likes of Poland and the Balkan countries who have greater ties to europe are another. I think the response to Poland being invaded would evoke a greater pushback from Europe - NATO or not - than Ukraine being invaded.
But that would ultimately be because Germany share a border with Poland, rather than it being a huge NATO issue.
And herein lies the problem with America enabling Russian expansion into Eastern Europe. It’s been a theatre or war between Russian and Germanic forces for centuries.
They would start with the three Baltic countries if they go down that route
comment by Darren The King Fletcher (U10026)
posted 4 minutes ago
But that would ultimately be because Germany share a border with Poland, rather than it being a huge NATO issue.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, that’s my point though. I didn’t mean that Poland were safe solely because of NATO but more that there is a difference between Ukraine having to roll over for a mineral deal than say, Poland.
Ukraine are just shiiit outta luck they don’t have NATO or share borders with powerful nations like Germany who can really step up and repel Russia without US help.
Russia won as soon as trump was elected.
Regarding Zelenskyy resigning, this will absolutely be a condition Russia will have which will be non-negotiable. People are forgetting the real reason Russia went into Ukraine and focussing on this NATO getting closer to their border narrative. The real reason is that they kicked out the pro-Russian government, which is why the went in, in 2014 and had been making strides since to permanently move away from Russia, had they joined the EU and ultimately NATO. Exactly the same reason they went into Georgia in 2008 and are now on good terms with them as they have a pro-Russian government who are now aiming away from joining the EU.
Holding territories in Ukraine will allow them to do the tried and tested method of moving Russian’s into those territories and therefore having a massive influence on future votes and giving them a platform to launch future attacks should they need to.
Zelenskyy knows this and will happily resign if he gets the guarantees, yet the Orange buffoon and that other idiot are trying to humiliate him into resigning without those guarantees.
Asking for thanks when forcing a deal whereby they take back more than they’ve put in from a country they know is in too weak a position to turn the deal down is pathetic. Americans should be up in arms about what occurred today, including Trump voters. Obviously his cultists are a lost cause but there are others who will be disgusted about what they witnessed today.
TOOR, appreciate that might be what you read somewhere, but it’s utter nonsense.
The issue with Russia and Ukraine pre dates 2014 and has nothing to do with who is in power, in Ukraine.
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 14 minutes ago
TOOR, appreciate that might be what you read somewhere, but it’s utter nonsense.
The issue with Russia and Ukraine pre dates 2014 and has nothing to do with who is in power, in Ukraine.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok Winston.
comment by TheresOnlyOne7-0Reds (U1721)
posted 32 seconds ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 14 minutes ago
TOOR, appreciate that might be what you read somewhere, but it’s utter nonsense.
The issue with Russia and Ukraine pre dates 2014 and has nothing to do with who is in power, in Ukraine.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok Winston.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If you can’t debate a subject and have no willingness to learn about it, you could have just not replied.
Obviously you never admit when you’re wrong, but if you genuinely believe Russia’s actions all come down to who Ukraine elected, then you’re obviously just reading a couple of Twitter accounts and passing it off as having actually researched the subject.
I have no interest in a debate where my knowledge of a subject is called utter nonsense and put down to something I have read.
That’s not a debate, you have already put down the debate, as if you have some kind of superior knowledge. I can tell you that you don’t but no point dragging this out for pages.
You’ll find somebody else you can drag down with you. Enjoy.
That’s fine TOOR.
You can’t defend your position because you don’t really understand the subject and you’re now claiming to be so offended by having your opinion called ‘nonsense’ that you refuse to respond.
He’s not wrong. It’s not a debate when there’s been no attempt to refute his point or offer a counter argument. Especially after moronically claiming that Russia’s actions have nothing to do with who is in charge in Ukraine.
comment by Darren The King Fletcher (U10026)
posted 5 seconds ago
He’s not wrong. It’s not a debate when there’s been no attempt to refute his point or offer a counter argument. Especially after moronically claiming that Russia’s actions have nothing to do with who is in charge in Ukraine.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He is wrong and there is a counter point.
I didn’t say it had nothing to do with it.
Maybe we can debate the subject when you actually respond to what I’ve said, instead of making things up.
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 31 minutes ago
TOOR, appreciate that might be what you read somewhere, but it’s utter nonsense.
The issue with Russia and Ukraine pre dates 2014 and has nothing to do with who is in power, in Ukraine.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
“I didn’t say it had nothing to do with it.”
Good night.
comment by Darren The King Fletcher (U10026)
posted 24 seconds ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 31 minutes ago
TOOR, appreciate that might be what you read somewhere, but it’s utter nonsense.
The issue with Russia and Ukraine pre dates 2014 and has nothing to do with who is in power, in Ukraine.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
“I didn’t say it had nothing to do with it.”
Good night.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It had nothing to do with why they invaded.
That’s not the same as saying their entire actions have nothing to do with who is in power.
Jesus wept.
Come back when you’ve read more than one twitter feed on the subject. I’m no expert, but you two clowns make me feel like one.
All that is happening is a consequence of a rivalry of mistrust, insecurity and hostility between two so called super powers of generations past.
You now have one of them being an aggressor and one being an appeaser with an attitude that it ain't their problem anymore when it obviously is.
Power and responsibility comes with a price. If the Trump U.S. want less responsibility then they should expect less control.
To quote the famous Spiderman phrase 'With great power comes great responsibility'.
Sign in if you want to comment
Zelensky vs Trump and Vance
Page 5 of 9
6 | 7 | 8 | 9
posted on 28/2/25
comment by Robb #456 (U22716)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Darren The King Fletcher (U10026)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Robb #456 (U22716)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Darren The King Fletcher (U10026)
posted 6 seconds ago
comment by Robb #456 (U22716)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by son of quebec (U8127)
posted 34 seconds ago
comment by Robb #456 (U22716)
posted 15 minutes ago
comment by manusince52 (U9692)
posted 15 seconds ago
I wonder if Poland and the Baltic states have minerals, if not they will just have to roll over, won't they?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They are in NATO. So they are much safer than Ukraine which has no such luck
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And you think this American government will honour it's agreements?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not particularly but there’s far more likely to be robust action to defend NATO countries - particularly by the European nations - than Ukraine for obvious reasons
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not with Trump in Putin’s pocket.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s just common sense though. European countries want to help Ukraine but they have to real compulsion to do so because Ukraine is just a non NaTO country. They’re doing the minimum to help but won’t put troops on the ground as it would be ruinous as deaths protecting a foreign country would face massive backlash at home for their people.
But whilst I doubt the average person on the street in France or Germany would be outraged if Russia one day tried to take a Baltic state - the fact that they’re in NATO leads to better acceptance that that will have to step in and help.
Even without the US.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But this is about America, with Trump in Putin’s pocket their obligations towards NATO are worthless.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not sure if you saw the OG post from MU52 but he was talking about if Poland is invaded should they roll over too. My response was that they are at least protected by NATO - even without the US so will have more options than Ukraine who have no such strong agreements (does the Budapest memorandum even count anymore?)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But if you take America out of the equation then it changes the whole game when it comes to European military guarantees with NATO and Ukraine.
posted on 28/2/25
comment by Darren The King Fletcher (U10026)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Robb #456 (U22716)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Darren The King Fletcher (U10026)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Robb #456 (U22716)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Darren The King Fletcher (U10026)
posted 6 seconds ago
comment by Robb #456 (U22716)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by son of quebec (U8127)
posted 34 seconds ago
comment by Robb #456 (U22716)
posted 15 minutes ago
comment by manusince52 (U9692)
posted 15 seconds ago
I wonder if Poland and the Baltic states have minerals, if not they will just have to roll over, won't they?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They are in NATO. So they are much safer than Ukraine which has no such luck
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And you think this American government will honour it's agreements?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not particularly but there’s far more likely to be robust action to defend NATO countries - particularly by the European nations - than Ukraine for obvious reasons
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not with Trump in Putin’s pocket.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s just common sense though. European countries want to help Ukraine but they have to real compulsion to do so because Ukraine is just a non NaTO country. They’re doing the minimum to help but won’t put troops on the ground as it would be ruinous as deaths protecting a foreign country would face massive backlash at home for their people.
But whilst I doubt the average person on the street in France or Germany would be outraged if Russia one day tried to take a Baltic state - the fact that they’re in NATO leads to better acceptance that that will have to step in and help.
Even without the US.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But this is about America, with Trump in Putin’s pocket their obligations towards NATO are worthless.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not sure if you saw the OG post from MU52 but he was talking about if Poland is invaded should they roll over too. My response was that they are at least protected by NATO - even without the US so will have more options than Ukraine who have no such strong agreements (does the Budapest memorandum even count anymore?)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But if you take America out of the equation then it changes the whole game when it comes to European military guarantees with NATO and Ukraine.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think we have crossed wires here.
MU52 was saying that what’s to stop Poland etc rolling over if Trump wants their minerals too. I said there’s a difference as they’re in NATO so countries have a ‘legal’ obligation to step in. Even if the US decided not to.
Not sure what you mean about military guarantees with Ukraine as I’m not sure there are any? Unless you mean that if NATO (minus the US) stepped foot in Ukraine there’s less chance of the US vetoing any attempts to help Ukraine like they have up until now as they won’t be involved?
posted on 28/2/25
*Putin wants their minerals (what’s even the difference now 😂)
posted on 28/2/25
comment by Robb #456 (U22716)
posted 1 minute ago
*Putin wants their minerals (what’s even the difference now 😂)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's another thing he wants from here. Cobalt Nickel Uranium amongst others.
posted on 28/2/25
comment by son of quebec (U8127)
posted 1 second ago
comment by Robb #456 (U22716)
posted 1 minute ago
*Putin wants their minerals (what’s even the difference now 😂)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's another thing he wants from here. Cobalt Nickel Uranium amongst others.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And Lithium. Something like 500K tonnes of it in Ukraine. Just what Musk desires.
posted on 28/2/25
I understand what you are saying, but my point is that legal guarantees now mean nothing given what America are doing. And Europe may not at this stage, but could well offer Ukraine military guarantees because Russia and America have facked the whole thing up. Treaties aren’t worth the paper they are printed on if nations don’t want to abide by them, and they are regularly ripped up when strategic aims change.
posted on 28/2/25
The old days of invading countries for oil seem rather quaint. A bygone era.
posted on 28/2/25
comment by Darren The King Fletcher (U10026)
posted 30 seconds ago
I understand what you are saying, but my point is that legal guarantees now mean nothing given what America are doing. And Europe may not at this stage, but could well offer Ukraine military guarantees because Russia and America have facked the whole thing up. Treaties aren’t worth the paper they are printed on if nations don’t want to abide by them, and they are regularly ripped up when strategic aims change.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Possibly but treaties or not, Ukraine is one thing and the likes of Poland and the Balkan countries who have greater ties to europe are another. I think the response to Poland being invaded would evoke a greater pushback from Europe - NATO or not - than Ukraine being invaded.
posted on 28/2/25
But that would ultimately be because Germany share a border with Poland, rather than it being a huge NATO issue.
posted on 28/2/25
And herein lies the problem with America enabling Russian expansion into Eastern Europe. It’s been a theatre or war between Russian and Germanic forces for centuries.
posted on 28/2/25
They would start with the three Baltic countries if they go down that route
posted on 28/2/25
comment by Darren The King Fletcher (U10026)
posted 4 minutes ago
But that would ultimately be because Germany share a border with Poland, rather than it being a huge NATO issue.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, that’s my point though. I didn’t mean that Poland were safe solely because of NATO but more that there is a difference between Ukraine having to roll over for a mineral deal than say, Poland.
Ukraine are just shiiit outta luck they don’t have NATO or share borders with powerful nations like Germany who can really step up and repel Russia without US help.
posted on 28/2/25
Russia won as soon as trump was elected.
posted on 28/2/25
Regarding Zelenskyy resigning, this will absolutely be a condition Russia will have which will be non-negotiable. People are forgetting the real reason Russia went into Ukraine and focussing on this NATO getting closer to their border narrative. The real reason is that they kicked out the pro-Russian government, which is why the went in, in 2014 and had been making strides since to permanently move away from Russia, had they joined the EU and ultimately NATO. Exactly the same reason they went into Georgia in 2008 and are now on good terms with them as they have a pro-Russian government who are now aiming away from joining the EU.
Holding territories in Ukraine will allow them to do the tried and tested method of moving Russian’s into those territories and therefore having a massive influence on future votes and giving them a platform to launch future attacks should they need to.
Zelenskyy knows this and will happily resign if he gets the guarantees, yet the Orange buffoon and that other idiot are trying to humiliate him into resigning without those guarantees.
Asking for thanks when forcing a deal whereby they take back more than they’ve put in from a country they know is in too weak a position to turn the deal down is pathetic. Americans should be up in arms about what occurred today, including Trump voters. Obviously his cultists are a lost cause but there are others who will be disgusted about what they witnessed today.
posted on 28/2/25
TOOR, appreciate that might be what you read somewhere, but it’s utter nonsense.
The issue with Russia and Ukraine pre dates 2014 and has nothing to do with who is in power, in Ukraine.
posted on 28/2/25
This’ll be good.
posted on 28/2/25
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 14 minutes ago
TOOR, appreciate that might be what you read somewhere, but it’s utter nonsense.
The issue with Russia and Ukraine pre dates 2014 and has nothing to do with who is in power, in Ukraine.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok Winston.
posted on 28/2/25
comment by TheresOnlyOne7-0Reds (U1721)
posted 32 seconds ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 14 minutes ago
TOOR, appreciate that might be what you read somewhere, but it’s utter nonsense.
The issue with Russia and Ukraine pre dates 2014 and has nothing to do with who is in power, in Ukraine.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok Winston.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If you can’t debate a subject and have no willingness to learn about it, you could have just not replied.
Obviously you never admit when you’re wrong, but if you genuinely believe Russia’s actions all come down to who Ukraine elected, then you’re obviously just reading a couple of Twitter accounts and passing it off as having actually researched the subject.
posted on 28/2/25
I have no interest in a debate where my knowledge of a subject is called utter nonsense and put down to something I have read.
That’s not a debate, you have already put down the debate, as if you have some kind of superior knowledge. I can tell you that you don’t but no point dragging this out for pages.
You’ll find somebody else you can drag down with you. Enjoy.
posted on 28/2/25
That’s fine TOOR.
You can’t defend your position because you don’t really understand the subject and you’re now claiming to be so offended by having your opinion called ‘nonsense’ that you refuse to respond.
posted on 28/2/25
He’s not wrong. It’s not a debate when there’s been no attempt to refute his point or offer a counter argument. Especially after moronically claiming that Russia’s actions have nothing to do with who is in charge in Ukraine.
posted on 28/2/25
comment by Darren The King Fletcher (U10026)
posted 5 seconds ago
He’s not wrong. It’s not a debate when there’s been no attempt to refute his point or offer a counter argument. Especially after moronically claiming that Russia’s actions have nothing to do with who is in charge in Ukraine.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He is wrong and there is a counter point.
I didn’t say it had nothing to do with it.
Maybe we can debate the subject when you actually respond to what I’ve said, instead of making things up.
posted on 28/2/25
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 31 minutes ago
TOOR, appreciate that might be what you read somewhere, but it’s utter nonsense.
The issue with Russia and Ukraine pre dates 2014 and has nothing to do with who is in power, in Ukraine.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
“I didn’t say it had nothing to do with it.”
Good night.
posted on 28/2/25
comment by Darren The King Fletcher (U10026)
posted 24 seconds ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 31 minutes ago
TOOR, appreciate that might be what you read somewhere, but it’s utter nonsense.
The issue with Russia and Ukraine pre dates 2014 and has nothing to do with who is in power, in Ukraine.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
“I didn’t say it had nothing to do with it.”
Good night.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It had nothing to do with why they invaded.
That’s not the same as saying their entire actions have nothing to do with who is in power.
Jesus wept.
Come back when you’ve read more than one twitter feed on the subject. I’m no expert, but you two clowns make me feel like one.
posted on 28/2/25
All that is happening is a consequence of a rivalry of mistrust, insecurity and hostility between two so called super powers of generations past.
You now have one of them being an aggressor and one being an appeaser with an attitude that it ain't their problem anymore when it obviously is.
Power and responsibility comes with a price. If the Trump U.S. want less responsibility then they should expect less control.
To quote the famous Spiderman phrase 'With great power comes great responsibility'.
Page 5 of 9
6 | 7 | 8 | 9