posted 2 weeks, 3 days ago
It's called debate sizzle. I know you have a different opinion to me and thank fffuc not allopurinol fans are like you. Front foot with misery and criticism.
I bring some balance and will call you out so sorry, not leaving any time soon.
posted 2 weeks, 3 days ago
comment by Automatic For The People (U21889)
posted 8 hours, 7 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 4 hours, 49 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 2 hours, 42 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 3 hours, 52 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by burghandy (U10383)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by burghandy (U10383)
posted 11 minutes ago
Prime Poch lost to Gent
Jose lost to a bunch of part time farmers whose coach was in prison in the ECL.
Redknapp lost to a relegated Pompey in an FA Cup semi final
Conte lost at Middlesbro in the FA Cup
Poch lost at Colchester in the League Cup
Sometimes beating the lesser teams in front of you is easier said than done and Spurs recent history is littered with very disappointing exits from cups against teams we should be beating
When flying high under Poch we lost to a poor United side in an FA Cup semi final.
SO to talk down this achievement because on paper we should have won or other managers would have won is to ignore the unpredictable nature of football. It is not a game played on paper and every Spurs fan should know that through bitter experience.
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I've already been through things like this before. They lost to those teams but the league campaign for them was a lot different. Ange's top 4 challenge fell away in December, it's about the earliest one has collapsed before and yet he was allowed to be kept on when previous managers would be sacked for it. The sole focus could then be on this one competition. Other managers haven't had that luxury. There was the bonus as well of having the bottom 3 be so poor that relegation wasn't an issue when in other seasons it would have been a big concern. So didn't even need to worry about the league for that.
We also had to go to extra time with Tamworth and were very lucky not to go out to Coventry earlier in the League Cup. That might have even got him the sack. Ange is a lucky boy to have lasted the length of the season for all his talk of being a winner. Jose is seen as a winner too but obviously had less luck - sacked before a final. Conte had the Covid thing during the Europa Conference, which was totally winnable for us at the time.
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What's all this "lucky not to go out to" BS
You never reverse that logic. A Spurs loss is a loss and you never cut the team / manager etc any slack, whether we've been unlucky or its an undeserved result. A crippling injury list is not an excuse for some, they still expect performances, results, progress and whinge like hell when it isnt delivered. No quarter given.
But when we win with a bit of fortune, or a good cup draw (for once) then our achievement is immediately down played. When previous managers over 17 years have failed, you're happy to give reasoning why and let them off. But when we lose to the champions in a semi final with a make shift team, then its all guns blazing in the criticisim.
Some of you just act as critics, not fans and it is the continual negative take on all things that fans like you give which I protest against.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm just adding some context to it because in my opinion Ange is getting overrated based on what he's done. He's receiving a sort of messianic status by some sections.
I wish fans wouldn't keep clinging to the injury thing. Did it affect things? Yes it would have done but has this excuse not also been dispelled by the form we exhibited at the end of last season, the start of this season, the end of this season too, all with much stronger and fitter squads available having had players return from injury? 1 win in our last 11 having players back.
Look, I give him credit for winning the Europa. He proved me wrong and managed to change things to get good performances out of this group of players in order to win us the trophy. I admit other managers have ridden their luck too, not just Ange but they by comparison managed the league seasons a lot better therefore I don't rate this manager as highly, even if he did win the Europa. I've been saying for ages that the league is a better reflection of the job a manager has done.
I am a fan but I've found it hard not to be a critic given the form. I don't see why it's so surprising though, it's the worst form we've ever seen from the club so naturally you should expect criticism. A Europa trophy is great though it has papered over what was an awful league campaign.
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We can say whatever we want Spurtle, if they don’t like it, that’s their f*cking problem.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sizzle
posted 2 weeks, 3 days ago
Spurtle. You talk about context and the you cite last season end form. It wasn't great, but we were half a season into a complete refresh of the team.
You expect the real deal after 6 months of Ange. In one breath yoh slate the quality of the squad and in the same one you damn the manager for not delivering elite level Spurs.
Everyone is delighted with the win. It may have shifted a few opinions but no one is doing as yoh are saying no one bar sandy is lauding Ange as the very best.
What some are doing is applying context - an incomplete squad, big injuries, tactics that have not always worked, dreadful form at times, a trophy, 2 years into a rebuild, and they are reaching a judgement. All these things are relevant and personally I find it hard to judge Ange properly because we have rarely had anything near a perfect set of circumstances to judge properly.
I thought he was a goner and that still wouldn't really bother me but if he stays i think he still has a lot to prove but happy to give him the chance to do that.
posted 2 weeks, 3 days ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 16 minutes ago
Spurtle. You talk about context and the you cite last season end form. It wasn't great, but we were half a season into a complete refresh of the team.
You expect the real deal after 6 months of Ange. In one breath yoh slate the quality of the squad and in the same one you damn the manager for not delivering elite level Spurs.
Everyone is delighted with the win. It may have shifted a few opinions but no one is doing as yoh are saying no one bar sandy is lauding Ange as the very best.
What some are doing is applying context - an incomplete squad, big injuries, tactics that have not always worked, dreadful form at times, a trophy, 2 years into a rebuild, and they are reaching a judgement. All these things are relevant and personally I find it hard to judge Ange properly because we have rarely had anything near a perfect set of circumstances to judge properly.
I thought he was a goner and that still wouldn't really bother me but if he stays i think he still has a lot to prove but happy to give him the chance to do that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To be honest, when you have a season without European football and the overload of games, I can't understand why the end of season form should be so bad. Call me naive but I was expecting perhaps the opposite to what we got, a manager starting off slowly trying to find his feet in the league and then with more time, form starting to improve. It's not even like we had any cup games to worry about towards the end. That was the first thing that gave me doubts. Then the continuation of not so great form at the start of the second exacerbated those doubts.
Tell me where I have slated the squad? Because for a long time I have been one of the few it seems to rate it and say it's better than a lot of fans think. It's one of the reasons why I believe Ange should be doing so much better.
Actually outside of JA606 and on many fan channels and podcasts, I've seen fans overpraise Ange. It usually depends on how pro or anti-Ange the hosts are. There are more Sandys out there, you'd be surprised.
You yourself talked before about not being able to properly judge Ange until players returned from injury. We saw that and the form was still dreadful. Are you backtracking now because he won the Europa?
I was officially Ange out after we lost to Leicester but knowing he was getting the whole season I looked at the situation and said to myself, well if form quickly turned around after he got his players back (something he almost promised us) then he could win me back and as I thought, it did not. 11 games, 1 win to Saints and 8 losses, is identically the same as our injury crisis run. The Europa win, as good as some of those performances were in a frankly rather weak competition, ultimately just papered over the cracks.
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Page 4 of 4
posted 2 weeks, 3 days ago
It's called debate sizzle. I know you have a different opinion to me and thank fffuc not allopurinol fans are like you. Front foot with misery and criticism.
I bring some balance and will call you out so sorry, not leaving any time soon.
posted 2 weeks, 3 days ago
comment by Automatic For The People (U21889)
posted 8 hours, 7 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 4 hours, 49 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 2 hours, 42 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 3 hours, 52 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by burghandy (U10383)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle (U1608)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by burghandy (U10383)
posted 11 minutes ago
Prime Poch lost to Gent
Jose lost to a bunch of part time farmers whose coach was in prison in the ECL.
Redknapp lost to a relegated Pompey in an FA Cup semi final
Conte lost at Middlesbro in the FA Cup
Poch lost at Colchester in the League Cup
Sometimes beating the lesser teams in front of you is easier said than done and Spurs recent history is littered with very disappointing exits from cups against teams we should be beating
When flying high under Poch we lost to a poor United side in an FA Cup semi final.
SO to talk down this achievement because on paper we should have won or other managers would have won is to ignore the unpredictable nature of football. It is not a game played on paper and every Spurs fan should know that through bitter experience.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I've already been through things like this before. They lost to those teams but the league campaign for them was a lot different. Ange's top 4 challenge fell away in December, it's about the earliest one has collapsed before and yet he was allowed to be kept on when previous managers would be sacked for it. The sole focus could then be on this one competition. Other managers haven't had that luxury. There was the bonus as well of having the bottom 3 be so poor that relegation wasn't an issue when in other seasons it would have been a big concern. So didn't even need to worry about the league for that.
We also had to go to extra time with Tamworth and were very lucky not to go out to Coventry earlier in the League Cup. That might have even got him the sack. Ange is a lucky boy to have lasted the length of the season for all his talk of being a winner. Jose is seen as a winner too but obviously had less luck - sacked before a final. Conte had the Covid thing during the Europa Conference, which was totally winnable for us at the time.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What's all this "lucky not to go out to" BS
You never reverse that logic. A Spurs loss is a loss and you never cut the team / manager etc any slack, whether we've been unlucky or its an undeserved result. A crippling injury list is not an excuse for some, they still expect performances, results, progress and whinge like hell when it isnt delivered. No quarter given.
But when we win with a bit of fortune, or a good cup draw (for once) then our achievement is immediately down played. When previous managers over 17 years have failed, you're happy to give reasoning why and let them off. But when we lose to the champions in a semi final with a make shift team, then its all guns blazing in the criticisim.
Some of you just act as critics, not fans and it is the continual negative take on all things that fans like you give which I protest against.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm just adding some context to it because in my opinion Ange is getting overrated based on what he's done. He's receiving a sort of messianic status by some sections.
I wish fans wouldn't keep clinging to the injury thing. Did it affect things? Yes it would have done but has this excuse not also been dispelled by the form we exhibited at the end of last season, the start of this season, the end of this season too, all with much stronger and fitter squads available having had players return from injury? 1 win in our last 11 having players back.
Look, I give him credit for winning the Europa. He proved me wrong and managed to change things to get good performances out of this group of players in order to win us the trophy. I admit other managers have ridden their luck too, not just Ange but they by comparison managed the league seasons a lot better therefore I don't rate this manager as highly, even if he did win the Europa. I've been saying for ages that the league is a better reflection of the job a manager has done.
I am a fan but I've found it hard not to be a critic given the form. I don't see why it's so surprising though, it's the worst form we've ever seen from the club so naturally you should expect criticism. A Europa trophy is great though it has papered over what was an awful league campaign.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We can say whatever we want Spurtle, if they don’t like it, that’s their f*cking problem.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sizzle
posted 2 weeks, 3 days ago
Spurtle. You talk about context and the you cite last season end form. It wasn't great, but we were half a season into a complete refresh of the team.
You expect the real deal after 6 months of Ange. In one breath yoh slate the quality of the squad and in the same one you damn the manager for not delivering elite level Spurs.
Everyone is delighted with the win. It may have shifted a few opinions but no one is doing as yoh are saying no one bar sandy is lauding Ange as the very best.
What some are doing is applying context - an incomplete squad, big injuries, tactics that have not always worked, dreadful form at times, a trophy, 2 years into a rebuild, and they are reaching a judgement. All these things are relevant and personally I find it hard to judge Ange properly because we have rarely had anything near a perfect set of circumstances to judge properly.
I thought he was a goner and that still wouldn't really bother me but if he stays i think he still has a lot to prove but happy to give him the chance to do that.
posted 2 weeks, 3 days ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 16 minutes ago
Spurtle. You talk about context and the you cite last season end form. It wasn't great, but we were half a season into a complete refresh of the team.
You expect the real deal after 6 months of Ange. In one breath yoh slate the quality of the squad and in the same one you damn the manager for not delivering elite level Spurs.
Everyone is delighted with the win. It may have shifted a few opinions but no one is doing as yoh are saying no one bar sandy is lauding Ange as the very best.
What some are doing is applying context - an incomplete squad, big injuries, tactics that have not always worked, dreadful form at times, a trophy, 2 years into a rebuild, and they are reaching a judgement. All these things are relevant and personally I find it hard to judge Ange properly because we have rarely had anything near a perfect set of circumstances to judge properly.
I thought he was a goner and that still wouldn't really bother me but if he stays i think he still has a lot to prove but happy to give him the chance to do that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To be honest, when you have a season without European football and the overload of games, I can't understand why the end of season form should be so bad. Call me naive but I was expecting perhaps the opposite to what we got, a manager starting off slowly trying to find his feet in the league and then with more time, form starting to improve. It's not even like we had any cup games to worry about towards the end. That was the first thing that gave me doubts. Then the continuation of not so great form at the start of the second exacerbated those doubts.
Tell me where I have slated the squad? Because for a long time I have been one of the few it seems to rate it and say it's better than a lot of fans think. It's one of the reasons why I believe Ange should be doing so much better.
Actually outside of JA606 and on many fan channels and podcasts, I've seen fans overpraise Ange. It usually depends on how pro or anti-Ange the hosts are. There are more Sandys out there, you'd be surprised.
You yourself talked before about not being able to properly judge Ange until players returned from injury. We saw that and the form was still dreadful. Are you backtracking now because he won the Europa?
I was officially Ange out after we lost to Leicester but knowing he was getting the whole season I looked at the situation and said to myself, well if form quickly turned around after he got his players back (something he almost promised us) then he could win me back and as I thought, it did not. 11 games, 1 win to Saints and 8 losses, is identically the same as our injury crisis run. The Europa win, as good as some of those performances were in a frankly rather weak competition, ultimately just papered over the cracks.
Page 4 of 4