comment by 'Galvino Did Flow' (U10415)
posted 2 minutes ago
https://twitter.com/howgilb/status/746635713215668225
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I'd rather deport these people than the Poles

comment by sᴉɥƃuǝlפ (U19365)
posted less than a minute ago
comment by I am gooner now (U16927)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Don Draper's dandruff (U20155)
posted less than a minute ago
still less bumpy than a scottish rollercoaster
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Now, now, you'll be accused of being racist against Scots.
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Wow you are a sensitive soul aren't you?
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You have a clear agenda and the use of a (I'll admit not the best) example ot make a point led to your repeatedly calling me a racist with a racist agenda. What do you expect?

As it happens I was 50-50 on what was the best outcome but ried to see the positives and negatives of both sides. My only agenda was what is best for this country, best for my children best for me. As such I considered the arguements from both sides, dismissed most as lies or twwisting the truth and tried to find out the truth for myself, using a number of sources from both sides as well as neutral. I also acted as the peacemaker n some quite heated discussions between friends of mine on iopposing sides.

The biggest dosappointment I have about the referendum is the number of people who cannot accept the democratic results and are calling for it to be overturned. For me it is more important that a democracy is maintained.

As soon as the referendum had been announced the future of this country and Europe was never going to be the same. Either we leave, as the outcome demands, or Europe would have presed ahead with imposing rules we did not want to accept including some which would damage this country and threaten the future of the NHS.

comment by I am gooner now (U16927)
posted 3 minutes ago
Putting you agenda to one side, of course the EU want us out. Merkel has an agenda of protecting German business as well though, and we are their second biggest market. If they try to screw us over they will also be scrwwing themselves over. 45% of our trade is with Europe. If they dont play ball it will have a huge effect on the European economies and could trigger the collapse of the Euro and possibly the EU. Both sides have a lot to gain from a quick and amicable agreement.
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The concerns for the EU regarding a quick and amicable agreement is that it may signal to other potential wantaway nations that they can leave just as easily, and lead eventually to the whole EU crumbling.

Not such a clear cut decision for them.

Might even be a case of damned if I do, damned if I don't.

comment by Don Draper's dandruff (U20155)
posted 38 minutes ago
comment by De Gea's Legs (U14210)
posted 10 seconds ago
Wow labour are truly fa cked
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dumb question, but if a dozen member of the shadow cabinet have no faith in corbyn, why not just mount a leadership challenge, rather than resigning en masse?

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Any Labour MP wanting to challenge Corbyn would require the support of at least 20% of their parliamentary colleagues - at current levels, with 229 MPs, that equates to about 50 signatures.

It's likely a vote of no confidence (which has no formal weight at all) will come first. Someone will emerge with a popular backing within the PLP next, securing the necessary 50 signatures. That might trigger one or two others to step forward.

There would then be a vote at the Conference (September I think), at which the Labour Party Members might well reelect Jezza - he won by a landslide in the first round last time. Then we're back to square one, before the Membership finally gets sick of the PLP and deselects a bunch of them prior to the next General Election.

"Europe would have presed ahead with imposing rules we did not want to accept including some which would damage this country and threaten the future of the NHS."

What are they?

TTIP for one but that appears to be under threat now.

comment by I am gooner now (U16927)
posted 1 minute ago
TTIP for one but that appears to be under threat now.
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British MPs, MEPs and other representatives were shaping large parts of TTIP.

I imagine that will change now.

The EU is dead on its feet without major reforms across the board. It is too inflexible do achieve that.

I terms of Labour, a lot of this is the result of Milliband changing the membership and the people that subsequently joined, which has shifted away from the traditional voter that makes them relevant on a general election scale.

Even a shift back right is going to be difficult as well.

comment by I am gooner now (U16927)
posted 4 minutes ago
TTIP for one but that appears to be under threat now.
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That concerns you more than the ongoing privatisation under new labour and this government?

comment by I am gooner now (U16927)
posted 1 minute ago
You have a clear agenda and the use of a (I'll admit not the best) example ot make a point led to your repeatedly calling me a racist with a racist agenda. What do you expect?

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As soon as the referendum had been announced the future of this country and Europe was never going to be the same. Either we leave, as the outcome demands, or Europe would have presed ahead with imposing rules we did not want to accept including some which would damage this country and threaten the future of the NHS.
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Yes I will agree I do have an agenda.

I really want to know why the leave voters are still convinced that.

a> Immigration is going to change as both parties have said it won't
b> EU is imposing rules we don't want but not one single leave voter can tell me what these are
c> The NHS will be any better after voting leave as the leave campaign have said that they lied about putting the extra money into it.

That is my agenda.

I want to see the leave plan of action that was to be followed after a successful leave vote.

Surely there was a plan, nobody would vote to blindly jump off a cliff without knowing there was a net to catch them, would they?

comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted less than a minute ago
comment by I am gooner now (U16927)
posted 4 minutes ago
TTIP for one but that appears to be under threat now.
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That concerns you more than the ongoing privatisation under new labour and this government?

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TTIP is a big step along that privatisation.

It's more likely that the UK will accept TTIP in an Anglo-US trade agreement than the EU will.

comment by sᴉɥƃuǝlפ (U19365)
posted 22 minutes ago
I really wish someone (Boris or Gove) would put their hat into the ring as candidate for Tory leader.

Then we will see who has the bottle to invoke article 50 and be remembered for royally fuсkіng over the UK.

Currently we are in limbo. We are still in EU but have no voice, our EU commissioner resigned over the weekend. Why should they listen to anything we have to say? After all, we have just told them we don't like the way they do business and that they have nothing to offer us anyway.

** Conspiracy theory hat on **
The EU want us out ASAP so they can make an example of us to scare other nations (some of whom are due elections) out of having a referendum.
** Conspiracy theory hat off **

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That sounds more pragmatic politics than conspiracy

comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by I am gooner now (U16927)
posted 4 minutes ago
TTIP for one but that appears to be under threat now.
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That concerns you more than the ongoing privatisation under new labour and this government?

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I am also interested to learn why people think a Conservative Government led by people who have called for the dismantlement of the NHS are more likely to ensure a trade deal with the US protects the Service than the EU.

comment by I am gooner now (U16927)
posted 5 minutes ago
TTIP for one but that appears to be under threat now.
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Could UK not have treated TTIP in the same way we treated the single currency (Euro and our participation in it), or the Schengen area (borderless movement between member states).

We are (weren't) part of both of those EU directives and as such there is a refugee / migrant camp in Calais called 'the jungle' because we still have a border. We were also able to exclude ourselves from financially bailing out any Euro zone countries because we weren't part of the single currency.

comment by Ross Turnbull has a Champions League medal (U3522)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted less than a minute ago
comment by I am gooner now (U16927)
posted 4 minutes ago
TTIP for one but that appears to be under threat now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That concerns you more than the ongoing privatisation under new labour and this government?

----------------------------------------------------------------------
TTIP is a big step along that privatisation.

It's more likely that the UK will accept TTIP in an Anglo-US trade agreement than the EU will.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I hope not. The biggest concern with TTIP that I am aware of is that it would have allowed the US companies to buy into the NHS and removed the ability of our government to take back control. They would effectively own parts of the NHS. This was being negotiated by the EU as we cannot negotiate our trade deals while a member and if we negotiate it ourselves we SHOULD keep greater control.

comment by sᴉɥƃuǝlפ (U19365)
posted about a minute ago
comment by I am gooner now (U16927)
posted 5 minutes ago
TTIP for one but that appears to be under threat now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Could UK not have treated TTIP in the same way we treated the single currency (Euro and our participation in it), or the Schengen area (borderless movement between member states).

We are (weren't) part of both of those EU directives and as such there is a refugee / migrant camp in Calais called 'the jungle' because we still have a border. We were also able to exclude ourselves from financially bailing out any Euro zone countries because we weren't part of the single currency.
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My understanding is no. We are not able to negotiate our own trade deals while we are in the EU so could not have traded with the US without signing up.

We are (weren't) part of both of those EU directives and as such there is a refugee / migrant camp in Calais called 'the jungle' because we still have a border. We were also able to exclude ourselves from financially bailing out any Euro zone countries because we weren't part of the single currency.

________________-

Except we did contribute over £800m towards bailing Greece out!

comment by I am gooner now (U16927)
posted 36 seconds ago
comment by Ross Turnbull has a Champions League medal (U3522)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted less than a minute ago
comment by I am gooner now (U16927)
posted 4 minutes ago
TTIP for one but that appears to be under threat now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That concerns you more than the ongoing privatisation under new labour and this government?

----------------------------------------------------------------------
TTIP is a big step along that privatisation.

It's more likely that the UK will accept TTIP in an Anglo-US trade agreement than the EU will.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I hope not. The biggest concern with TTIP that I am aware of is that it would have allowed the US companies to buy into the NHS and removed the ability of our government to take back control. They would effectively own parts of the NHS. This was being negotiated by the EU as we cannot negotiate our trade deals while a member and if we negotiate it ourselves we SHOULD keep greater control.
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Unfortunately. Now that we have to make our own trade deals we will most likely have to accept TTIP as part of the price of doing business with USA.

If the EU ratifies TTIP then you can guarantee that we will have to. If not then any trade deal with USA will be hamstrung in a big way.

I'm pretty sure the EU has said it would protect the NHS explicitly in the negotiations.

The privatisation of the NHS would concern me far more out of the EU than in it.

There were so many positives and negatives on both Bremain and Brexit sides I was 50-50 and not going to vote. I eventually did vote to leave purely in the basis that TTIP and negotiating our own trade deals globally is imo probably in our best interests as a country.

All I can say is if you are still concerned, do your homwork on TTIP yourself and make up your own mind. I would suggest not just taking sources that have the viewpoint you do, but from across the board before making your final judgement. It does also require discernment of who you trust though.

On issues such as finance, immigration, etc I thought it was too close to call so was not going to vote.

Personally I didn't see any positives to brexit, not without a huge leap of faith I was unwilling to do.

Any government that gave away control of the NHS would be commiting political suicide. I think it is safer outside TTIP.

comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted about a minute ago
Personally I didn't see any positives to brexit, not without a huge leap of faith I was unwilling to do.
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A lot of it was about faith in this country. But with the EU already pressing for our contribution to rise, payments to bail out Greece, new members due to join (Kosovo, Macedonia and one other I cant remember I think are imminent) who wil be net receivers rather than payers, failing economies and long term risk to the Euro.

One of my first comments today was that there was always going to be immediate impacts on our economy if we left, but I think we will recover and the long term future over the next 10-50 years is probably bigger