comment by Luke Combs (U3979)
posted 3 minutes ago

Nobody adheres to it, for the record, but it's technically not permitted where visible on my new build estate.

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That's insane!

comment by Luke Combs (U3979)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Ji Sung Park's Cousin (U2958)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Luke Combs (U3979)
posted 14 seconds ago
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 46 seconds ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 45 minutes ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 47 seconds ago

On the subject of homes, insulation of existing buildings is another important one.
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It helps a great deal to wear warmer clothing indoors rather than heat houses to summer temperatures so they can sit around in t-shirts and shorts.

Similarly, there's massive reductions in energy consumption to be had in regions with hot climates if people get used to the weather instead of trying to create penguin-friendly habitats in the middle of the Arizona desert.
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In affluent areas in hot parts of the US there are lots of communities that actually ban drying washing outside, using the free resource of warm air. Hanging up your washing is associated with poverty. It's the land of the free, up to the point where your behaviour risks driving down your neighbours' property prices.
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Oh wow

Literally only in the US.
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Not true at all, that's a bylaw in places all over the UK...
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Really? Never heard of that. Hanging out your washing is considered middle, even upper class in places i've lived. Tumble dryers are seen as a bit of a poor person's choice.
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Nobody adheres to it, for the record, but it's technically not permitted where visible on my new build estate.

By-law may be a poor choice of words actually.
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What the fack?! My good god

comment by Ji Sung Park's Cousin (U2958)
posted 37 seconds ago
comment by Luke Combs (U3979)
posted 14 seconds ago
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 46 seconds ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 45 minutes ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 47 seconds ago

On the subject of homes, insulation of existing buildings is another important one.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

It helps a great deal to wear warmer clothing indoors rather than heat houses to summer temperatures so they can sit around in t-shirts and shorts.

Similarly, there's massive reductions in energy consumption to be had in regions with hot climates if people get used to the weather instead of trying to create penguin-friendly habitats in the middle of the Arizona desert.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

In affluent areas in hot parts of the US there are lots of communities that actually ban drying washing outside, using the free resource of warm air. Hanging up your washing is associated with poverty. It's the land of the free, up to the point where your behaviour risks driving down your neighbours' property prices.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh wow

Literally only in the US.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not true at all, that's a bylaw in places all over the UK...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Really? Never heard of that. Hanging out your washing is considered middle, even upper class in places i've lived. Tumble dryers are seen as a bit of a poor person's choice.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

This inspired me to do another bit of Googling. I can see reports that a few housing associations / leaseholders ban drying on balconies and shared gardens. Some cite 'health and safety' as the reason or euphemistically talk about consideration for neighbours, but there's a 'ruining the nice aesthetic' subtext running through.

I didn't find any references to actual by-laws, which is not to say they don't exist.

comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Luke Combs (U3979)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Ji Sung Park's Cousin (U2958)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Luke Combs (U3979)
posted 14 seconds ago
comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 46 seconds ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 45 minutes ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 47 seconds ago

On the subject of homes, insulation of existing buildings is another important one.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

It helps a great deal to wear warmer clothing indoors rather than heat houses to summer temperatures so they can sit around in t-shirts and shorts.

Similarly, there's massive reductions in energy consumption to be had in regions with hot climates if people get used to the weather instead of trying to create penguin-friendly habitats in the middle of the Arizona desert.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

In affluent areas in hot parts of the US there are lots of communities that actually ban drying washing outside, using the free resource of warm air. Hanging up your washing is associated with poverty. It's the land of the free, up to the point where your behaviour risks driving down your neighbours' property prices.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh wow

Literally only in the US.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not true at all, that's a bylaw in places all over the UK...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Really? Never heard of that. Hanging out your washing is considered middle, even upper class in places i've lived. Tumble dryers are seen as a bit of a poor person's choice.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nobody adheres to it, for the record, but it's technically not permitted where visible on my new build estate.

By-law may be a poor choice of words actually.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What the fack?! My good god
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Oh first thing I did was install a washing line, I work in the kitchen so fack using a tumble dryer

comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 25 minutes ago
Barry, I was waiting for the punchline and didn't find it. It's always disarming when you do that.

I fear we can't just rely on younger people to be the right-thinking heroes who save us all. We're essentially wired the same way, whatever age we are, and subject to the limitations of the human condition. We're also subject to the gravitational pull of market forces and the outsized cultural influence of billionaires.
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Yeah but I have still noticed a massive shift within my industry within the past decade. We are not all wired the same way either. An important shift is within education. Gammons were educated mainly by disciplinarians who would beat them for getting an answer wrong, AND IT DIDN'T DO THEM ANY HARM (clearly it did). Then had to go to church on Sunday to be shouted at and bummed.

The type of people who generally get into teaching these days do it for the right reasons. It is almost as if the solution to stupidity is education. It is very difficult to teach an old dog new tricks though. They get their modern day education through the internet, where they are targeted by algorithms intended to exploit their inability to recognise false information. A lot of the problems WILL go away when the gammon generation just fack off and die. Could we round them up and send them to

<loses internet connection>

comment by Rude Van Nist (U22799)
posted 15 minutes ago
comment by Ji Sung Park's Cousin (U2958)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Rude Van Nist (U22799)
posted 21 seconds ago

The gammon thing was/is quite effective in getting some older people who would sit on the fence, for a quiet life, to actually engage more, in fear of being classed as a gammon.
=====================

All it did was push them further towards being a "gammon"

Leave people alone that want a quiet life.
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People burying their head in the sand is why climate change is an issue.

Let's see if they are quiet when climate change creates a mass, global exodus.
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"Mass, global exodus" Maude Flanders "wont somebody think of the children" levels of hysteria.
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It's estimated there is currently 200-400million people living in coastal areas less than 2m above sea level who would almost certainly have to move, and that's based on current population so will be even more when it actually happens.

That also doesn't take into account people who will have to move due to other climate change issues like forest fires, increased rainwater flooding etc.

IF climate change is real, and not just weather bring weather, whatever we do is essentially worthless anyway due to China and rich people / politicians flying excessively everywhere. So what is the point

If all the governments and politicians came out and said they’re going to curb and limit their flying due to the necessity needed to help reduce climate change etc etc a lot more people would take it more seriously

At the moment it’s too much like “do as I say not as I do”. You had our climate change minister last year take a record number of flights to over 15 countries during Covid so he even had the perfect reasoning for changing to zoom meetings

Then you had all the people flying in for the climate conference in Scotland. Just as two examples

How can they expect people to believe it when their actions say otherwise

I always thought Americans didn’t really dry their clothes on a washing line (unless its some Little House on the Prairie set up) and all use tumble driers.

Also Americans always seem to have top lid washing machines rather than front. I’m guessing thats more to do with space and not needing a washing machine in a kitchen.

Another question:

Given that we are *already seeing* mass extinction (at more than 100 times the background rate), the destruction of natural habitats at an historically record rate, rapid temperate and other climate changes, chronic freshwater shortages, etc. and have been aware of all of the above for more than a decade, can we now conclude that the free market is not going to deliver the solutions we need?

Man’s behaviour driving climate change, and the dangers of climate change have been matters of scientific consensus for more than a generation now, and through that time we have seen emissions increase, water and air pollution increase, energy use increase, concrete production increase, aluminium production increase, deforestation rates increase.

The free market has not helped to arrest *any* of these trends. And where measures of mitigation have brought some respite for the planet, they have overwhelmingly emerged thanks to public investment, regulation and policymaking, rather than voluntary action in the corporate world.

Are we now all agreed that technological innovations and voluntary progressive action from the private sector aren’t going to bail us out?

comment by Oscar #TeamFury (U12980)
posted 2 minutes ago
IF climate change is real, and not just weather bring weather, whatever we do is essentially worthless anyway due to China and rich people / politicians flying excessively everywhere. So what is the point

If all the governments and politicians came out and said they’re going to curb and limit their flying due to the necessity needed to help reduce climate change etc etc a lot more people would take it more seriously

At the moment it’s too much like “do as I say not as I do”. You had our climate change minister last year take a record number of flights to over 15 countries during Covid so he even had the perfect reasoning for changing to zoom meetings

Then you had all the people flying in for the climate conference in Scotland. Just as two examples

How can they expect people to believe it when their actions say otherwise

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Absolutely agree with everything after your first paragraph.

“I’m not doing it because he’s not doing it,” however, has never been a good argument for inaction.

comment by Oscar #TeamFury (U12980)
posted 1 minute ago
IF climate change is real, and not just weather bring weather, whatever we do is essentially worthless anyway due to China and rich people / politicians flying excessively everywhere. So what is the point

If all the governments and politicians came out and said they’re going to curb and limit their flying due to the necessity needed to help reduce climate change etc etc a lot more people would take it more seriously

At the moment it’s too much like “do as I say not as I do”. You had our climate change minister last year take a record number of flights to over 15 countries during Covid so he even had the perfect reasoning for changing to zoom meetings

Then you had all the people flying in for the climate conference in Scotland. Just as two examples

How can they expect people to believe it when their actions say otherwise


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So you are saying that the government need to be held accountable? Who is it they govern? Is it you by any chance? If the government were shaaggging kids would you just be like oh well they're doing it so I might as well keep on shaaggging kids. Or would you be like hey maybe it's the shaaggging kids bit that's the issue and they need to be held accountable.

And Rosso, What may I ask you is the solution to all these issue's?

Gammons were educated mainly by disciplinarians who would beat them for getting an answer wrong, AND IT DIDN'T DO THEM ANY HARM (clearly it did). Then had to go to church on Sunday to be shouted at and bummed.
———

Yea Rosso, why haven't you come up with the perfect solution to this insanely complex issue yet?

Hey if you are gonna preach about it, you should have some idea about to fix it.

comment by Rude Van Nist (U22799)
posted 4 minutes ago
And Rosso, What may I ask you is the solution to all these issue's?
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There isn’t a single silver bullet, is there?

We’re going to need to see:

- Individuals deciding to take responsibility for their actions, and changing their spending habits and making alterations to their lifestyles accordingly…

- Incentivised by policymakers who reward those making better choices, and who also address the corporate world piiiissing all over the planet.

Whether through conscious consumerism, by carrot or by stick, we probably need to see pretty quickly (amongst other things but towards the top of the list):

- Huge reduction in (particularly) intercontinental flights
- Huge reduction in animal husbandry and meat and dairy consumption
- Significant degrowth in various markets, including automobile production, fashion and textiles
- Massive new investment in renewable energy
- Huge amounts of rewilding

Incentivise green technologies and employment in those sectors.

Upgrade public transport and infrastructure to make them more viable.

New build housing must be carbon neutral.

Just 3 ideas off the top of my head.

There is only one realistic solution to addressing climate change, make it profitable. People are more likely to change their behaviour (be more easily manipulated) if it makes billionaires more money.

THEY CANT FORCE ME TO DO ANYTHING ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE. Oh a fart filter that purifies my farts, I need that! Sorted.

The biggest thing we need to change, and really the elephant in the room, is population. We cannot sustain 7+ billion people on a finite planet.

If I were more conspiracy minded, i'd say the western governments already knows this and are purposefully trying to price people out of the idea of having more than one kid.

Population control is about the biggest test of liberal thinking and humanism though. It would be almost impossible to even begin that conversation on a practical level.

comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)
posted 13 minutes ago
comment by Rude Van Nist (U22799)
posted 4 minutes ago
And Rosso, What may I ask you is the solution to all these issue's?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There isn’t a single silver bullet, is there?

We’re going to need to see:

- Individuals deciding to take responsibility for their actions, and changing their spending habits and making alterations to their lifestyles accordingly…

- Incentivised by policymakers who reward those making better choices, and who also address the corporate world piiiissing all over the planet.

Whether through conscious consumerism, by carrot or by stick, we probably need to see pretty quickly (amongst other things but towards the top of the list):

- Huge reduction in (particularly) intercontinental flights
- Huge reduction in animal husbandry and meat and dairy consumption
- Significant degrowth in various markets, including automobile production, fashion and textiles
- Massive new investment in renewable energy
- Huge amounts of rewilding
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Next question, do you think we will see that?

The biggest thing we need to change, and really the elephant in the room, is population. We cannot sustain 7+ billion people on a finite planet.
========================

This I agree with.

However its western birth rates are dropping. Other places, not so much

comment by Ji Sung Park's Cousin (U2958)
posted 57 seconds ago
The biggest thing we need to change, and really the elephant in the room, is population. We cannot sustain 7+ billion people on a finite planet.

If I were more conspiracy minded, i'd say the western governments already knows this and are purposefully trying to price people out of the idea of having more than one kid.

Population control is about the biggest test of liberal thinking and humanism though. It would be almost impossible to even begin that conversation on a practical level.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Technically we can. We can produce enough food to feed the highest 2050 population projections, the issue is not with the number but with geographic distribution and accessibility

comment by Rude Van Nist (U22799)
posted 39 seconds ago
However its western birth rates are dropping. Other places, not so much
----------------------------------------------------------------------

China’s birth rates are dropping to a point where there is concern

The issue is more to do with consumption than actually having 7bn people. Which brings us back to lifestyle and how we consume energy.