They won't.

Comment deleted by Site Moderator

China will rule the world in 5 years. And I don't mean sport

Do you mean food-wise Kenyan?

5 years is a bit unlikely i'd say kenyan, but yes i think it's been pretty clear for over a decade now that they will get there soon enough.

forza - yes, im looking at a slightly longer period than 1 games mate. i was looking at the medal tables going back to the war earlier today, and they dont start featuring at all until 1988. then the last 2 or 3 games, theyve really started to challenge the usa (and ussr), and as you say they were top last time out.

from what i remember though, most of their previous medals have been in stuff like gymnasitcs, table tennis, badminton, shooting etc etc. they are starting to win gold medals in swimming this games though, which is taking it to a whole new level, and why i think that their dominance will expand to more and more sports which we dont historically associate them with.

Comment deleted by Site Moderator

China , very good but brittle and prone to cracking

Raptor - If you want to get really, really, really angry, read some of the Chairman Mao biography by Jon Halliday. If it wasnt true you would laugh at it.

In football in 20 years they will be a force.

On-topic: I don't think they'll ever do better than Japan have, for all sorts of reasons. One is height, another is that the vast majority of the population are isolated in the country - they can only effectively select from the cities.

Off-topic: JPB I've seen your interest in history and empires the last few days, have you ever read the Flashman books mate?

It is natural that now they are economically strong that they would start to dominate at sports too. The Chinese population is huge, so being the best in china at an event really means something, whereas GB are good at certain events but don't have the population to dominate most events like USA/Russia/China. All that was holding China back was the facilities and know how, and they have caught up quickly in that regard as soon as they became economically strong. If India had the same facilities available to them as the Chinese do then the Indians would also be very dominant at the Olympics.

Football is a funny one though it cares for neither wealth (Brazil, Argentina) nor population (Holland, Uruguay, Italy) it seems to be cultural. Neither the USA or Russia have ever Won a world cup, so China aren't a shoe in for anything

Unreachable population aside, you make some tremendous points about football I reckon striketeam

The Blue Kenyan - Forever Defending Sturridge

China will rule the world in 5 years. And I don't mean sport



They already do where I live, there are five Chinese takeways within five minutes walk.

Sandy- that's because you live in Hong Kong

Strike07- great post and valid points

All- China will win the world cup when they realise they can buy it

Sandy does NOT live in Hong Kong. He lives in the WHL bouncy castle

1 team - even with dodgy officiating a team can only get so far (for reference see Japan and South Korea at the 2002 WC hosted jointly - by amazing coincidence - by South Korea and Japan).

1 Team in NL


Sandy- that's because you live in Hong Kong

Off-topic: JPB I've seen your interest in history and empires the last few days, have you ever read the Flashman books mate?
====================

Kimchi, no I havent mate. A couple of good friends of mine at school left to go to Rugby though so I would be predeposed to disliking this series.

I have read George Orwell's Burmese days which was also an satirical attack on the British in Asia. To be honest though, it's a peice of pizzz to be a cynic, and Orwell made a career out of it, as - from the looks of it - did the guy who wrote these Flashman books.

I have read other books (recently a beautiful novel called The Piano Tuner) concerning the empire, both fictional and factual.My mum lived in India in the 50s when the british were still quite influential, and my half brother's grandfather was a district officer in Assam.

These may be factors for my interest in the Empire, but I am also interested in it because I was born before the sun set on the empire in 1997 and am proud of that.

Furthermore, whilst I consider myself to be a fair and reasonable person, I detest the anti british bias which popular culture encourages, and the misrepresentation of history in general.

There is no doubt that there were some right idiotts in the British Army and in British Society overseas, and also that the British did a number of things wrong in the 150-200 years in which they could be said to have ruled the waves.

This is inevitable though considering the magnitidue of the endeavour which culminated in the creation of the largest empire the world has ever seen.

Whilst it is easy to criticise some of the actions of the british from afar however, I have no doubt whatsoever that in comparison just about any other regional or international dominant force in history up to that point, the british compare favourably both in terms of their benevolance, and ambition.

In india, britain worked alongside the maharajas and princes, rather than attempting to supplant them. I have little doubt that other powers with the power to do so, would have wiped out these native ruling classes rather than trying to work with them as the british did. such an attittude can be seen as a pioneer of modern day international politics in some ways, rather than a further example of the butchery which mankind had tended to perpetuate before the days when britain became the world's leading power.

Although the Empire was built on trade, and profit for Britain, it also encompassed a desire to improve the lot of the nations which were originally its trade partners and which subsequently came under the fold of the empire.

The british gave many of these countries opportunities to improve that they had never previously had, and whilst britain's attitude was off kilter in at times, and in some countries, some of these countries have truly never had it as good as when the british were there.

Britain educated millions who would never have received an education, built architectural, transportation and communication infrastructure the like of which many of its dominiions and colonies had ever seen. All of these assets were left upon britain's departure.

Let's make no bones about it, if any nation on earth could have 'taken over' as britain did, they would have done. It is almost certain that they would not have had the same benovlant ambitions which britain coupled with it's aims of profitable trade. The quotation which I have posted on here from Queen Victoria in india in 1877 reads like something barrack obama would say, and is frankly incredible seeing as it was made in the 19th century. I have also recently read in a non fiction book about britain's attempts to set up african ruling classes in the 18th century. I am also aware of the massive lengths the britain went to to abolish slavery world wide, entering into trade treaties with foreign powers throughout the 19th century which effectively outlawed slaverry in their countries, this followed in the footsteps of the british themselves who had made it a criminal offence in the empire within 30 years of its official formation.

On top of all of this, it should not be forgotten that out of all the international powers in history, the british were the most succesful, spreading its flag over one third of the entire globe.

To me these wil always be things to be immensly proud of, not to be ashamed of, and I will always defend the memory of those who gave so much to attain such phenominal achievements on behalf of our great nation.

JPB - that post deserves a thread - if not a forum! - all of itself. Very interesting and it's a real pleasure for me to hear someone speak in such detail of our history

The Flashman books are historically pretty accurate down to the types of belt buckles the British army wore etc, and while they're obviously largely fictional and feature caricatures, the historical backgrounds they are set against are absolutely key to the stories, and impeccably drawn. The settings and 'atmosphere' of The Empire are (as far as I know) absolutely spot on.

In thirty years plus of being fascinated by our history (got my degree in it - my thesis supervisor was a friend of Martin Luther King's family), nothing else I've read has come close to bringing alive that particular era. From London society to the first (or was it second?) Afghan war, honestly mate it's the best

My mum was born and raised in colonial Africa, my granddad was a leader (previously a Major in WW2) against the Mau Mau out there. And we all know how Kenya's gone since we left. So, I know the excesses but I also know of the good.

If you like reading (and I think you must) please try the first two Flashman novels and get back to me, eh? I say the first two because in the first one Flashman is pretty brutal, but it tempers later (once he's learned a lesson or two!) and the series settles down. Still a bl**dy good book though. And all that aside, they're some of the most entertaining books I've ever read (and I've read a lot!)

Don't let Rugby school put you off - Flashman was expelled from there

My mum was born and raised in colonial Africa, my granddad was a leader (previously a Major in WW2) against the Mau Mau out there. And we all know how Kenya's gone since we left. So, I know the excesses but I also know of the good.
========================

Very interesting Kimchi.

Something I find particularly annoying is how the british get criticised for being unpleasant to the mau mau. as you will no doubt be fully aware, these people were butchers. i caught some of jeremy paxman's documentary "Empire" recently in which he interviewed an ex kenyan district office (who was about 85) and a former leader of the mau mau who admitts to commiting mass murrder and butchery of fellow kenyans. paxman gave the DO a much harder interview than the mau mau leader. unbelievable. and i find this all too typical an approach these days to this period and to the colonial enterprise as a whole.

tbh, my interest in colonial stuff has diminished somewhat in recent years, however I will look out for the flashman books. thank you for the heads up. I would also thoroughly recommend the Piano Tuner by Daniel Mason. I was lucky enough to finish it overlooking a major river in the Shan State in Burma (where much of the book was set), but regardless of this, I would regard it as a truly magical piece of literature which is drippiing with detail of colonial london and burma


nb - I was at Warwick for 9 years, so will never like Rugby anyway

Oh and got a cousin out in Helmand right now in camp support (often sees Wills and Harry when she's back in Anglesey) and she was fascinated last time I saw her by the knowledge I had of the Afghan problems stretching so far back. And all of that was from the first Flashman book

I don't doubt it

JP.. you should write a book

have to say i agree with you

If we had not ruled the waves and founded the British empire then another country would of


Never hear anyone moaning about Alexander the Great who ruled the biggest empire in the world at the age of 25

Weare

JPB - you have sold me The Piano Tuner, going to order it right now

Don't get me started on the Mau Mau and the general lawlessness of Kenya before the British tried to impose some order.

My mum grew up as a child with sticks with razors attached coming in her window at night to either hook things or slash the occupants, and her father going out most nights to stop the Mau Mau tearing other Kenyans limb from limb (and most often it was literally).

I don't think she ever recovered from those memories.

Despite that, my late mum's best friends as a child in Africa were a half-caste girl and an Indian rickshaw driver in Mombasa when she holidayed there.

I still have Granddad's whistle (a whistle!! Against bloodthirsty gangs without any moral limit to their behaviour whatsoever!) and it's one of my proudest possessions.

I don't think 99.999% of the population now have any idea whatsoever about this stuff, or any interest in it. It's quite sickening to me.

And, sorry I don't want to drag this thread off course, really, but it has to be said (again) by me that the opening ceremony for the Olympic games was a travesty of PC gone mad, and I'm incredibly embarrassed even if no-one else is.

Back on topic, and I'll happily put a grand on China never to win the World Cup OR Olympics in football in my lifetime. They'll progress a lot no doubt, but they'll never win it imo.

I don't think 99.999% of the population now have any idea whatsoever about this stuff, or any interest in it. It's quite sickening to me.
======================

agree. sadly the world just wants to use the british as a scape goat for just about anything that goes wrong imo.

i had similar concerns to yours regarding the olympic ceremony, which you may have seen me discussing with PP , A1 and others on the olympic thread. tbh I can kind of understand that it would have been difficult to do much on the Empire due to the overwhelming predisposition the world has for being offended by it. still sad as you say though.

btw, the other information in your post was fascinating.

i have no doubt that you will thoroughly enjoy the book btw