comment by The Sniper (U21079)
posted 33 minutes ago
comment by Kung Fu Cantona *JeSuisPalestinian* (U18082)
posted 17 minutes ago
comment by The Sniper (U21079)
posted 50 minutes ago
Regarding the Orlando shooter, I don't think you should totally dismiss the role religion had in the attack.
Being brought up in an Islamic family and being told that homosexuality is a wicked sin is bound to cause some psychological trauma for someone who develops homosexual feelings. The experiences we have during our childhood play a major role in how we develop mentally.
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Did his parents tell him it's a wicked sin?
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I don't know. I'd be willing to bet that they did though.
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I wouldn't.

Going back to my post above this one, culturally some people are very shy about talking about secs even though the Quran talks about it openly.

My parents are religious and my dad taught the Quran from a young age. They have never in their lives talked about secs to me, even the bits in the Quran.

They grew up in farms in the Moroccan country side, culturally they didn't have the courage to talk about it with me and my siblings.

I never heard anything about homosexuals being wicked and speaking to my friends who are mostly British/Pakistani neither did they.

My money would go the other way unless of course he admitted to being gay.

comment by Galvs...Friend of Reason (U10415)
posted 3 minutes ago
There is so much sexual repression in religion tbf....and fear of the female genitalia
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No not really.


Yes really...you know this and I know this.
Come on.
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Why did you isolate my comment to one quote, read it in context and show me proof it isn't cultural.

I can show you proof the Quran isn't repressive sexually can you show me that it is?

Don't forget to include sources.

I can show you proof the Quran isn't repressive sexually can you show me that it is?
________________

I think you have misinterpreted his point. The Quran is not a religion, any more than the Bible is.

If you look at how religions are practised in the real world, I don't see how anyone can deny the inherent sexual repression.

Comment deleted by Site Moderator

comment by redmisty (U7556)
posted 1 minute ago
I can show you proof the Quran isn't repressive sexually can you show me that it is?
________________

I think you have misinterpreted his point. The Quran is not a religion, any more than the Bible is.

If you look at how religions are practised in the real world, I don't see how anyone can deny the inherent sexual repression.

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Are you basing this on all religions or basing it on Christianity and labelling all religions that way?

Comment deleted by Site Moderator

I understood that, Galvs....and I agree. I'm yet to see any religion that isn't horribly repressed...like, medieval style repression in many cases. It's one of the reasons I am not religious!

Religion has always encouraged hate more than love, in all its guises imo.

Are you basing this on all religions or basing it on Christianity and labelling all religions that way?
_______________

All religions that I am aware of.

comment by Kung Fu Cantona *JeSuisPalestinian* (U18082)
posted 48 seconds ago
comment by The Sniper (U21079)
posted 33 minutes ago
comment by Kung Fu Cantona *JeSuisPalestinian* (U18082)
posted 17 minutes ago
comment by The Sniper (U21079)
posted 50 minutes ago
Regarding the Orlando shooter, I don't think you should totally dismiss the role religion had in the attack.
Being brought up in an Islamic family and being told that homosexuality is a wicked sin is bound to cause some psychological trauma for someone who develops homosexual feelings. The experiences we have during our childhood play a major role in how we develop mentally.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Did his parents tell him it's a wicked sin?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't know. I'd be willing to bet that they did though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I wouldn't.

Going back to my post above this one, culturally some people are very shy about talking about secs even though the Quran talks about it openly.

My parents are religious and my dad taught the Quran from a young age. They have never in their lives talked about secs to me, even the bits in the Quran.

They grew up in farms in the Moroccan country side, culturally they didn't have the courage to talk about it with me and my siblings.

I never heard anything about homosexuals being wicked and speaking to my friends who are mostly British/Pakistani neither did they.

My money would go the other way unless of course he admitted to being gay.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

It’s not so much that the parents were telling him about homosexuality, but more that he was felt that it was a wrong due to a strict religious upbringing and began to despise himself (and others) because of it. For instance, if you were a homosexual, how would you feel? Would you tell your parents and your friends? How do you think they would react? I also was brought up in a conservative religious household so I know what my answers to those questions would be.

Here’s what Mateen’s ex-wife said about it –

http://time.com/4369577/orlando-shooting-sitora-yusufiy-omar-mateen-gay/

comment by redmisty (U7556)
posted 59 seconds ago
Are you basing this on all religions or basing it on Christianity and labelling all religions that way?
_______________

All religions that I am aware of.

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I've spent virtually my entire adult life working abroad.mostly among rural or semi-rural populations

http://heavy.com/news/2016/06/mir-seddique-omar-mateen-father-son-afghanistan-orlando-mass-shooting-family-reaction/

Here's info for Mateen's father. Deduce whatever you want out of that. It's definitely possible that his parents had an influence on Omar's views on homosexuality.

comment by Gillespie Rd. (U18361)
posted 1 second ago
comment by redmisty (U7556)
posted 59 seconds ago
Are you basing this on all religions or basing it on Christianity and labelling all religions that way?
_______________

All religions that I am aware of.

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I've spent virtually my entire adult life working abroad.mostly among rural or semi-rural populations
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I've spent virtually my entire adult life working abroad. Mostly among rural or semi-rural populations in South America, Asia and most recently in Africa.

I've lived and worked among followers of the major religions as well as dozens of minor ones.

While my experiences can be mostly dismissed as anecdotal, my experiences tend to agree with Redmisty on this.

comment by redmisty (U7556)
posted 19 minutes ago
I can show you proof the Quran isn't repressive sexually can you show me that it is?
________________

I think you have misinterpreted his point. The Quran is not a religion, any more than the Bible is.

If you look at how religions are practised in the real world, I don't see how anyone can deny the inherent sexual repression.

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That's where we have to agree to disagree.

The content of the Quran is a religion.

comment by Galvs...Friend of Reason (U10415)
posted 23 minutes ago
redmisty

It's a generalisation sure....I mean ALL religions not just Islam
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All? I'm pretty sure Hindus are the authors of the Karma Sutra

Kama*

Comment deleted by Site Moderator

The content of the Quran is a religion.
______________

The content is simply words on a page. How those words are interpreted, and the ways in which people choose to base their lives on those words, is a religion.

You can read the Quran and *choose* to live your life by it...or you can *choose* not to.

By saying that the Quran is itself a religion, you are denying that there is any individual choice or freedom of thought involved. To me that is a massive cop-out.

By all means live your life by the Quran if you so wish, but that is a *choice* to do so.

Religion always involves choices and decisions made by individuals. Otherwise how do you explain the many different ways in which Islam is practised by different people around the world?

Did they all read a different version of the Quran?

Or did they simply *choose* to interpret it differently?

comment by Kung Fu Cantona *JeSuisPalestinian* (U18082)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Galvs...Friend of Reason (U10415)
posted 23 minutes ago
redmisty

It's a generalisation sure....I mean ALL religions not just Islam
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All? I'm pretty sure Hindus are the authors of the Karma Sutra
_________________

They are also among some of the most sexually repressed people I have ever met. Having traveled India extensively, I can say this without any shadow of a doubt in my mind.

comment by redmisty (U7556)
posted 39 seconds ago
comment by Kung Fu Cantona *JeSuisPalestinian* (U18082)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Galvs...Friend of Reason (U10415)
posted 23 minutes ago
redmisty

It's a generalisation sure....I mean ALL religions not just Islam
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All? I'm pretty sure Hindus are the authors of the Karma Sutra
_________________

They are also among some of the most sexually repressed people I have ever met. Having traveled India extensively, I can say this without any shadow of a doubt in my mind.

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The people and the religion are not one and the same.

I can subscribe to certain people being sexually repressive not religion in general which is essential a manual for practitioners.

KFC & Zlat, I understand where both you guys are coming from, though I'm not sure I agree this time.

I posted an example yesterday on what St Paul had to say in the New Testament about head covering.

There were three wildly different interpretations of what the passage actually meant.

Whichever any given Christian believed to be "true", there are still two others to suit different points of view.

Which is true then?
Is it the one the majority holds to be true?
Is it the one that was held to be true at the beginning?
Is it simply the one that sits best with your own beliefs?

Neither of you will convince me that every interpretation you make of any given passage that's subject to other interpretations is the absolute truth.

I can understand it works for you, but you must both be aware that in certain cases you might be in a minority among the followers of Islam.

Of course it's a cultural thing, but as Zlat himself said yesterday or the day before, religious views have shaped the way almost all of our societies live.

The people and the religion are not one and the same.
_______________

You are being obtuse now.

The culture in India is very much based upon the religions practised in that country.

It is religion that relegates females to second class citizens in places like India - not the people per se. They don't treat women the way they do out of spite. They believe it is the correct way to treat them based on their religion.

Have you even been to India or are you just arguing for the sake of it?

I can subscribe to certain people being sexually repressive not religion in general which is essential a manual for practitioners.
_____________

I've already corrected you on this.

The "manual" is not the religion. No book is a religion. Religion is a practice - i.e. a set of behaviours, not rule book.

I ask you again, how do you explain the fact that so many muslims practise Islam differently if interpretation has nowt to do with it?

The Bible has not changed in hundreds of years but the *behaviour* of Christians has changed massively. I.e. the religion has changed even though the "manual" itself has not.

comment by redmisty (U7556)
posted 40 minutes ago
I can subscribe to certain people being sexually repressive not religion in general which is essential a manual for practitioners.
_____________

I've already corrected you on this.

The "manual" is not the religion. No book is a religion. Religion is a practice - i.e. a set of behaviours, not rule book.

I ask you again, how do you explain the fact that so many muslims practise Islam differently if interpretation has nowt to do with it?

The Bible has not changed in hundreds of years but the *behaviour* of Christians has changed massively. I.e. the religion has changed even though the "manual" itself has not.

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A set of behaviours based on a rule book, if you aren't following the rule book then you aren't practising the religion.

This is where the argument of interpretation comes into the equation and it's usually something some people hide behide espeacially when they blame terrorism on religion.

People seem to think anything and everything can be interpreted differently when in actual fact people are most likely manipulating text deliberately (not practising the religious text)

It's also good not to generalise religions, the Quran it self says not to dwell on the ambiguous verses.

“It is He Who has sent down to you (Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) the Book (this Qur’aan). In it are Verses that are entirely clear, they are the foundations of the Book [and those are the Verses of Al-Ahkaam (commandments), Al-Faraa’id (obligatory duties) and Al-Hudood (laws for the punishment of thieves, adulterers)]; and others not entirely clear. So as for those in whose hearts there is a deviation (from the truth) they follow that which is not entirely clear thereof, seeking Al-Fitnah (polytheism and trials), and seeking for its hidden meanings, but none knows its hidden meanings save Allaah. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: “We believe in it; the whole of it (clear and unclear Verses) are from our Lord.” And none receive admonition except men of understanding”

[Aal ‘Imraan 3:7]


The verses talking about secs and killing are as clear as day and for any Muslim who as actually read the Quran will tell you that there is no confusion.

Listening to an imam with an agenda and never studying the Quran leads to confusion.

comment by redmisty (U7556)
posted 51 minutes ago
The people and the religion are not one and the same.
_______________

You are being obtuse now.

The culture in India is very much based upon the religions practised in that country.

It is religion that relegates females to second class citizens in places like India - not the people per se. They don't treat women the way they do out of spite. They believe it is the correct way to treat them based on their religion.

Have you even been to India or are you just arguing for the sake of it?

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The debate is about sexual repression not the status of women within said religion.

Anything specific in the Hindu Holy book that seems particularly sexually repressive? I don't know?

I have decided that I want to be a US Senator.

Fecking hell, these guys are getting good money to skip meetings, skip votes, and ramble on for as long as they can.

Sounds like a dream job.