comment by thebluebellsarablue (U9292)
posted 1 hour, 16 minutes ago
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 7 minutes ago
The main reason I voted remain was that I did not think there was any plan for our exit or trust our politicians to deliver it in a way that wouldn't severely impact the nation or have long term consequences.

What I thought about the EU was secondary to my vote after that. The EU isn't perfect, but we are much better off being part of it and trying to influence it than being on the outside looking in.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Leave lacked an economic vision going forward and any brexit bonus will take years, imo.

Not sure uk could influence the whole EU that much, if it dissented on anything from within, as Poland now sees, even though Warsaw courts decided primacy of Polish constitutional law over Brussels, raising the old self- determination sovereignty argument.

France and Germany tell Warsaw to toe the line, because Paris and Berlin rule the roost in the EU....the initial concept of a trade bloc EEC has now morphed into a Brussells centralized superstate, but who voted for that?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The original treaty of Romes first paragraph is about an ever closer political union

That is what was voted in favour of in the 70s, there was also, throughout the latest referendum campaign countless examples posted on 1975 TV coverage where it was clear what was being voted for.

Now YOU may have been ignorant of what you were agreeing to, but that's hardly a valid reason to be ignorant during the second vote.

comment by Just Shoot (U10408)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by thebluebellsarablue (U9292)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Hector (U3606)
posted 2 minutes ago
I'll be dead in 20 years, probably from starvation or hypothermia because the right wing boys here keep voting against their best interests.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hyperbole, but remember you can cuddle up to Just Shoot living in your basement...or now that he owns Newcastle FC, he can see you right with a few quid, lol.

We live in luxury in the uk, compared to most of the world, even under this brexit hell haha, so man up and dry your eyes.

Am jokin.♥️


----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeaaaahh!!

Can you play left wing back, Hector?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newcastle have decided to no longer consider Sunderland a derby, they now consider their closest rivals to be Man city, Man Utd, Chelsea, Liverpool, and the international treaty of human rights.

Comment deleted by Site Moderator

Question to the Labour gang (90% of this thread) on here.

Should the opposition not be alot more vociferous about a bunch of murderers taking over at Newcastle?

Are they keeping quiet because they are scared that speaking out will cost them northeast votes?

comment by PawlBawron (U1055)
posted 4 minutes ago
Question to the Labour gang (90% of this thread) on here.

Should the opposition not be alot more vociferous about a bunch of murderers taking over at Newcastle?

Are they keeping quiet because they are scared that speaking out will cost them northeast votes?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not in the labour gang, haven't voted for them since 2001 (my first ever vote in a general election at 18)

I think the deal isn't a good thing but in reality if you look at business dealings, the amount of weapons the UK sell to Saudi and the multi million pound property sales it'd be hard for anyone to argue against it. Also the EPL already has UAE and their humans rights problems so could Saudi be the "line in the sand" or "the straw that broke the camels back" for some possibly?

Paul's obsession with Labour continues (think he fancies us)

But this might help answer your question https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/mandrake-labour-conference/

🚨 | NEW: Teachers who use the term 'white privilege' should be reported to Prevent as extremists, Tory MP Jonathan Gullis has claimed Via @DailyMirror

comment by CrouchEndGooner (U13531)
posted 1 second ago
Paul's obsession with Labour continues (think he fancies us)

But this might help answer your question https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/mandrake-labour-conference/
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Thats a bit unfair.

I think the majority of people can't believe that its happening and I would have expected Labour to tap into this.

comment by De Gea's Legs (U14210)
posted 3 minutes ago
🚨 | NEW: Teachers who use the term 'white privilege' should be reported to Prevent as extremists, Tory MP Jonathan Gullis has claimed Via @DailyMirror
----------------------------------------------------------------------
so we have a Tory MP wanting to use a fascist tactic to attack free speech and they have the gaul to call others extremists!

comment by Just Shoot (U10408)
posted 46 minutes ago
comment by Insert random username (U10647)
posted 1 hour, 17 minutes ago
comment by thebluebellsarablue (U9292)
posted 1 hour, 16 minutes ago
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 7 minutes ago
The main reason I voted remain was that I did not think there was any plan for our exit or trust our politicians to deliver it in a way that wouldn't severely impact the nation or have long term consequences.

What I thought about the EU was secondary to my vote after that. The EU isn't perfect, but we are much better off being part of it and trying to influence it than being on the outside looking in.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Leave lacked an economic vision going forward and any brexit bonus will take years, imo.

Not sure uk could influence the whole EU that much, if it dissented on anything from within, as Poland now sees, even though Warsaw courts decided primacy of Polish constitutional law over Brussels, raising the old self- determination sovereignty argument.

France and Germany tell Warsaw to toe the line, because Paris and Berlin rule the roost in the EU....the initial concept of a trade bloc EEC has now morphed into a Brussells centralized superstate, but who voted for that?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The original treaty of Romes first paragraph is about an ever closer political union

That is what was voted in favour of in the 70s, there was also, throughout the latest referendum campaign countless examples posted on 1975 TV coverage where it was clear what was being voted for.

Now YOU may have been ignorant of what you were agreeing to, but that's hardly a valid reason to be ignorant during the second vote.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not sure an agreement made 50 years ago to an ever closer political union forecast what we have now.

If we take the phrase 'ever closer political union' to it's natural conclusion, it is a single super state.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not sure what you are getting at.

Tbab is saying people voted out because they thought they were just joining a trading bloc.

But that's not true, and never was, it was just another pervasive lie made by the brexiters at the last referendum

comment by Samus (Isle of) Arran (U22669)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by De Gea's Legs (U14210)
posted 3 minutes ago
🚨 | NEW: Teachers who use the term 'white privilege' should be reported to Prevent as extremists, Tory MP Jonathan Gullis has claimed Via @DailyMirror
----------------------------------------------------------------------
so we have a Tory MP wanting to use a fascist tactic to attack free speech and they have the gaul to call others extremists!


----------------------------------------------------------------------

comment by PawlBawron (U1055)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by CrouchEndGooner (U13531)
posted 1 second ago
Paul's obsession with Labour continues (think he fancies us)

But this might help answer your question https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/mandrake-labour-conference/
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Thats a bit unfair.

I think the majority of people can't believe that its happening and I would have expected Labour to tap into this.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/not-for-me-to-criticise-saudi-led-takeover-of-newcastle-starmer-says-294344/amp/

“ Asked whether the deal should go ahead amid concerns about Saudi Arabia’s lamentable human rights record, Sir Keir said he was “concerned” – but did not say he thought the deal should be blocked.

“It’s not for me as the leader of the opposition to say who should own which football club. It is for an independent regulator. That is the scheme we’re putting forward,” he said.”

Not sure what more you expect Labour to do

comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 8 seconds ago
comment by PawlBawron (U1055)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by CrouchEndGooner (U13531)
posted 1 second ago
Paul's obsession with Labour continues (think he fancies us)

But this might help answer your question https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/mandrake-labour-conference/
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Thats a bit unfair.

I think the majority of people can't believe that its happening and I would have expected Labour to tap into this.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/not-for-me-to-criticise-saudi-led-takeover-of-newcastle-starmer-says-294344/amp/

“ Asked whether the deal should go ahead amid concerns about Saudi Arabia’s lamentable human rights record, Sir Keir said he was “concerned” – but did not say he thought the deal should be blocked.

“It’s not for me as the leader of the opposition to say who should own which football club. It is for an independent regulator. That is the scheme we’re putting forward,” he said.”

Not sure what more you expect Labour to do
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Are you serious!?

Starmer needs to get that fence post out of his rathole.

Comment deleted by Site Moderator

comment by PawlBawron (U1055)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by FieldsofAnfieldRd (U18971)
posted 8 seconds ago
comment by PawlBawron (U1055)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by CrouchEndGooner (U13531)
posted 1 second ago
Paul's obsession with Labour continues (think he fancies us)

But this might help answer your question https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/mandrake-labour-conference/
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Thats a bit unfair.

I think the majority of people can't believe that its happening and I would have expected Labour to tap into this.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/not-for-me-to-criticise-saudi-led-takeover-of-newcastle-starmer-says-294344/amp/

“ Asked whether the deal should go ahead amid concerns about Saudi Arabia’s lamentable human rights record, Sir Keir said he was “concerned” – but did not say he thought the deal should be blocked.

“It’s not for me as the leader of the opposition to say who should own which football club. It is for an independent regulator. That is the scheme we’re putting forward,” he said.”

Not sure what more you expect Labour to do
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Are you serious!?

Starmer needs to get that fence post out of his rathole.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Funny this.

What he has said isn’t enough. But we all know had he come out and said the Saudi’s shouldn’t own Newcastle there’d be cries of what’s it got to do with him, pointing to Labour dealing with Saudi when in power and he’s playing party politics because the government backed the takeover.

They’re always damned if they do and damned if thei don’t to some on here. Look at reaction to criticism of the governments handling of COVID and Brexit as examples.

He’s right though. There should be tougher and updated regulation on owners. The fit & proper persons test is obviously a load of shiite.

comment by Just Shoot (U10408)
posted 14 minutes ago
comment by Insert random username (U10647)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Just Shoot (U10408)
posted 46 minutes ago
comment by Insert random username (U10647)
posted 1 hour, 17 minutes ago
comment by thebluebellsarablue (U9292)
posted 1 hour, 16 minutes ago
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 7 minutes ago
The main reason I voted remain was that I did not think there was any plan for our exit or trust our politicians to deliver it in a way that wouldn't severely impact the nation or have long term consequences.

What I thought about the EU was secondary to my vote after that. The EU isn't perfect, but we are much better off being part of it and trying to influence it than being on the outside looking in.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Leave lacked an economic vision going forward and any brexit bonus will take years, imo.

Not sure uk could influence the whole EU that much, if it dissented on anything from within, as Poland now sees, even though Warsaw courts decided primacy of Polish constitutional law over Brussels, raising the old self- determination sovereignty argument.

France and Germany tell Warsaw to toe the line, because Paris and Berlin rule the roost in the EU....the initial concept of a trade bloc EEC has now morphed into a Brussells centralized superstate, but who voted for that?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The original treaty of Romes first paragraph is about an ever closer political union

That is what was voted in favour of in the 70s, there was also, throughout the latest referendum campaign countless examples posted on 1975 TV coverage where it was clear what was being voted for.

Now YOU may have been ignorant of what you were agreeing to, but that's hardly a valid reason to be ignorant during the second vote.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not sure an agreement made 50 years ago to an ever closer political union forecast what we have now.

If we take the phrase 'ever closer political union' to it's natural conclusion, it is a single super state.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not sure what you are getting at.

Tbab is saying people voted out because they thought they were just joining a trading bloc.

But that's not true, and never was, it was just another pervasive lie made by the brexiters at the last referendum
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The point I'm making is when countries joined they had little idea of how far it would go - simply because they aren't fortune tellers. An alliance to have closed ties from the 70's may not be the realisation of today. That isn't to say it is good or bad. The idea of closer political union may have surpassed what was originally thought or wanted.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Which is neither here nor there, when the assertion is that we voted to join a trading bloc and not a political union.

Because we voted to join a political union.

Also RE: Football and the Newcastle takeover.

I thought government's werent meant to intervene on footballing matters, isn't that one of FIFAs golden rules?

And on taking the knee we were continually told it was Marxist and we should "keep politics out of football".

*even though it's about equality.

comment by Insert random username (U10647)
posted 3 hours, 5 minutes ago

comment by thebluebellsarablue (U9292)
posted 1 hour, 16 minutes ago
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 7 minutes ago
The main reason I voted remain was that I did not think there was any plan for our exit or trust our politicians to deliver it in a way that wouldn't severely impact the nation or have long term consequences.

What I thought about the EU was secondary to my vote after that. The EU isn't perfect, but we are much better off being part of it and trying to influence it than being on the outside looking in.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Leave lacked an economic vision going forward and any brexit bonus will take years, imo.

Not sure uk could influence the whole EU that much, if it dissented on anything from within, as Poland now sees, even though Warsaw courts decided primacy of Polish constitutional law over Brussels, raising the old self- determination sovereignty argument.

France and Germany tell Warsaw to toe the line, because Paris and Berlin rule the roost in the EU....the initial concept of a trade bloc EEC has now morphed into a Brussells centralized superstate, but who voted for that?
-----
What an erroneous view. Poland used self determination to become a member of EU. They signed up to it willingly, nobody forced them. If they think it no longer suits them they are free to self determine themselves out of the EU.

You're literally trying to make it look like some dictatorship. Why?

comment by Insert random username (U10647)
posted 1 hour, 11 minutes ago
comment by Just Shoot (U10408)
posted 46 minutes ago
comment by Insert random username (U10647)
posted 1 hour, 17 minutes ago
comment by thebluebellsarablue (U9292)
posted 1 hour, 16 minutes ago
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 7 minutes ago
The main reason I voted remain was that I did not think there was any plan for our exit or trust our politicians to deliver it in a way that wouldn't severely impact the nation or have long term consequences.

What I thought about the EU was secondary to my vote after that. The EU isn't perfect, but we are much better off being part of it and trying to influence it than being on the outside looking in.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Leave lacked an economic vision going forward and any brexit bonus will take years, imo.

Not sure uk could influence the whole EU that much, if it dissented on anything from within, as Poland now sees, even though Warsaw courts decided primacy of Polish constitutional law over Brussels, raising the old self- determination sovereignty argument.

France and Germany tell Warsaw to toe the line, because Paris and Berlin rule the roost in the EU....the initial concept of a trade bloc EEC has now morphed into a Brussells centralized superstate, but who voted for that?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The original treaty of Romes first paragraph is about an ever closer political union

That is what was voted in favour of in the 70s, there was also, throughout the latest referendum campaign countless examples posted on 1975 TV coverage where it was clear what was being voted for.

Now YOU may have been ignorant of what you were agreeing to, but that's hardly a valid reason to be ignorant during the second vote.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not sure an agreement made 50 years ago to an ever closer political union forecast what we have now.

If we take the phrase 'ever closer political union' to it's natural conclusion, it is a single super state.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not sure what you are getting at.

Tbab is saying people voted out because they thought they were just joining a trading bloc.

But that's not true, and never was, it was just another pervasive lie made by the brexiters at the last referendum
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I did not say that, Insert

I said the original concept of the EEC was to improve trade.

Now, they are telling nation states what to do internally, even with regards to courts and constutional matters, which is fine, if you like that sort of thing, and regard yourself as a global euro citizen....millions do not.

People voted out for what the EU morphed into...rightly or wrongly.

comment by Hector (U3606)
posted 22 minutes ago
And on taking the knee we were continually told it was Marxist and we should "keep politics out of football".

*even though it's about equality.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Partially, but founders of BLM are marxist minded and we imported American identity poitics into the uk and sport, well, into uk fitba really....other sports must be different?

comment by Just Shoot (U10408)
posted 1 hour, 5 minutes ago
comment by Insert random username (U10647)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Just Shoot (U10408)
posted 46 minutes ago
comment by Insert random username (U10647)
posted 1 hour, 17 minutes ago
comment by thebluebellsarablue (U9292)
posted 1 hour, 16 minutes ago
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 7 minutes ago
The main reason I voted remain was that I did not think there was any plan for our exit or trust our politicians to deliver it in a way that wouldn't severely impact the nation or have long term consequences.

What I thought about the EU was secondary to my vote after that. The EU isn't perfect, but we are much better off being part of it and trying to influence it than being on the outside looking in.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Leave lacked an economic vision going forward and any brexit bonus will take years, imo.

Not sure uk could influence the whole EU that much, if it dissented on anything from within, as Poland now sees, even though Warsaw courts decided primacy of Polish constitutional law over Brussels, raising the old self- determination sovereignty argument.

France and Germany tell Warsaw to toe the line, because Paris and Berlin rule the roost in the EU....the initial concept of a trade bloc EEC has now morphed into a Brussells centralized superstate, but who voted for that?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The original treaty of Romes first paragraph is about an ever closer political union

That is what was voted in favour of in the 70s, there was also, throughout the latest referendum campaign countless examples posted on 1975 TV coverage where it was clear what was being voted for.

Now YOU may have been ignorant of what you were agreeing to, but that's hardly a valid reason to be ignorant during the second vote.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not sure an agreement made 50 years ago to an ever closer political union forecast what we have now.

If we take the phrase 'ever closer political union' to it's natural conclusion, it is a single super state.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not sure what you are getting at.

Tbab is saying people voted out because they thought they were just joining a trading bloc.

But that's not true, and never was, it was just another pervasive lie made by the brexiters at the last referendum
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The point I'm making is when countries joined they had little idea of how far it would go - simply because they aren't fortune tellers. An alliance to have closed ties from the 70's may not be the realisation of today. That isn't to say it is good or bad. The idea of closer political union may have surpassed what was originally thought or wanted.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agreed.

A cynic would say Germany sought to dominate Europe, by other means, but i could not possibly comment.

With Macron as a jumped up cheerleader....while leading a nation where millions opppse the EU on immigration etc.

comment by Insert random username (U10647)
posted 3 hours, 32 minutes ago
comment by thebluebellsarablue (U9292)
posted 1 hour, 16 minutes ago
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 7 minutes ago
The main reason I voted remain was that I did not think there was any plan for our exit or trust our politicians to deliver it in a way that wouldn't severely impact the nation or have long term consequences.

What I thought about the EU was secondary to my vote after that. The EU isn't perfect, but we are much better off being part of it and trying to influence it than being on the outside looking in.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Leave lacked an economic vision going forward and any brexit bonus will take years, imo.

Not sure uk could influence the whole EU that much, if it dissented on anything from within, as Poland now sees, even though Warsaw courts decided primacy of Polish constitutional law over Brussels, raising the old self- determination sovereignty argument.

France and Germany tell Warsaw to toe the line, because Paris and Berlin rule the roost in the EU....the initial concept of a trade bloc EEC has now morphed into a Brussells centralized superstate, but who voted for that?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The original treaty of Romes first paragraph is about an ever closer political union

That is what was voted in favour of in the 70s, there was also, throughout the latest referendum campaign countless examples posted on 1975 TV coverage where it was clear what was being voted for.

Now YOU may have been ignorant of what you were agreeing to, but that's hardly a valid reason to be ignorant during the second vote.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Am old, but not even i was voting for the old EEC set up, lad.

Perhaps being an island nation and separate from mainland Europe, plus repeated wars and hostility with the main men in Europe, Germany, France, Spain etc the British never felt part of the EU project.

And back in the seventies when we joined, many on the left and Sinn Fein opposed membership, while the conservatives and unionists were for joining, if uno your history, haha.

comment by De Gea's Legs (U14210)
posted 1 hour, 41 minutes ago
🚨 | NEW: Teachers who use the term 'white privilege' should be reported to Prevent as extremists, Tory MP Jonathan Gullis has claimed Via @DailyMirror
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Kent uni run a course on "white privilege".

Extremist Kents.

comment by Thorgen Kloppinson (U1282)
posted 30 minutes ago
comment by Insert random username (U10647)
posted 3 hours, 5 minutes ago

comment by thebluebellsarablue (U9292)
posted 1 hour, 16 minutes ago
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 7 minutes ago
The main reason I voted remain was that I did not think there was any plan for our exit or trust our politicians to deliver it in a way that wouldn't severely impact the nation or have long term consequences.

What I thought about the EU was secondary to my vote after that. The EU isn't perfect, but we are much better off being part of it and trying to influence it than being on the outside looking in.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Leave lacked an economic vision going forward and any brexit bonus will take years, imo.

Not sure uk could influence the whole EU that much, if it dissented on anything from within, as Poland now sees, even though Warsaw courts decided primacy of Polish constitutional law over Brussels, raising the old self- determination sovereignty argument.

France and Germany tell Warsaw to toe the line, because Paris and Berlin rule the roost in the EU....the initial concept of a trade bloc EEC has now morphed into a Brussells centralized superstate, but who voted for that?
-----
What an erroneous view. Poland used self determination to become a member of EU. They signed up to it willingly, nobody forced them. If they think it no longer suits them they are free to self determine themselves out of the EU.

You're literally trying to make it look like some dictatorship. Why?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I am reporting what some Poles and their courts are saying, regarding Polish law having to bend the knee to Brussels lawmakers.

80% of Poles are ok being in the EU, apparently, as they receive more than they pay in, unlike Ireland now, btw.

It is not healthy to be so blindly pro-EU you cannot accept criticism of how Brussels operates, be it the vaccine or laws or whatever.

Just because some think it goes against leavers or tories or flag wavers or working class types who are English before European.