comment by Galvs. (U10415)
posted 29 seconds ago
comment by HenrysCat (U3608)
posted 2 minutes ago
You're talking about stuff that happened a long time ago - I'm pretty sure any historical figure you might chose to pick would have something about their life we'd find dubious now. I'm not expert on the Koran, but assuming it doesn't say "feck kids", I'm not sure how Mo's marriage is relevant.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So either it's an ancient book that no one should believe in this day and age or it isn't?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't know, is his marriage cited as the basis of the way people should live their lives? The guy above indicated this isn't the case - so it's not really relevant.

Comment deleted by Site Moderator

comment by Zlatanariyan (U19849)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Galvs. (U10415)
posted 4 minutes ago
OK which one of you has the truth ?

I'm trying to understand here.....
----------------------------------------------------------------------

The truth is the only 1. However the issue is one of general ruling and specific ruling

For example the general ruing for a muslim is Pork is not allowed. Yet there is s pecific ruling that in circumstances of starvation and risk to life Pork is allowed. Some will not eat pork and die and some will be slightly peckish and throw a hog on the BBQ. Both are wrong but will justify their stance
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry, but to my mind, both are not wrong, both are right. To my mind, and correct me if I'm wrong, no-one should come between you and your god and your interpretation of his teachings - I understood this was a popular approach in the Islamic world?

comment by Galvs. (U10415)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by HenrysCat (U3608)
posted 2 minutes ago
You're talking about stuff that happened a long time ago - I'm pretty sure any historical figure you might chose to pick would have something about their life we'd find dubious now. I'm not expert on the Koran, but assuming it doesn't say "feck kids", I'm not sure how Mo's marriage is relevant.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So either it's an ancient book that no one should believe in this day and age or it isn't?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Dont want to sound pretentious/arrogant/facetious but right here is the issue and why an in depth study/discussion is needed around issues

The quran and the hadith are the 2 ruling bodies (for want of a better word) for muslims. And there needs to be a basic understanding of how these work. Muslims and non muslims dont have this in, I would argue, most cases

Put simply hadith and quran has issues it deals with that are specific for its time and future. Some people mix the 2

FOr muslims its not hard to understand why that happens. MAin reason is countries with Islam as the main religion are largely illiterate/uneducated and the powers that be manipulate for their own purposes

For non muslims what often gets portrayed is snippets without context

Comment deleted by Site Moderator

comment by Galvs. (U10415)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Zlatanariyan (U19849)
posted 28 seconds ago
comment by Galvs. (U10415)
posted 4 minutes ago
OK which one of you has the truth ?

I'm trying to understand here.....
----------------------------------------------------------------------

The truth is the only 1. However the issue is one of general ruling and specific ruling

For example the general ruing for a muslim is Pork is not allowed. Yet there is s pecific ruling that in circumstances of starvation and risk to life Pork is allowed. Some will not eat pork and die and some will be slightly peckish and throw a hog on the BBQ. Both are wrong but will justify their stance
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You think it's wrong to eat it to survive?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

no, in a word

But as i say I was fortunate enough to study different religions in some detail. My mum on the other hand grew up never having been to school (nothing to do with female emancipation etc but simply where and when she was born and other circumstances eg she lost her mum at a very young age). She would not even touch a pig as thats all she knew. It was a job to get her to eat frozen halal foods bought from stores

sounds ludicrous in this day and age I know

Comment deleted by Site Moderator

comment by Zlatanariyan (U19849)
posted 20 minutes ago
comment by rossobianchi says WUBBA LUBBA DUB DUB! (U17054)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Zlatanariyan (U19849)
posted 48 seconds ago
comment by The Sniper (U21079)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by rossobianchi says WUBBA LUBBA DUB DUB! (U17054)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by The Sniper (U21079)
posted 2 hours ago
comment by rossobianchi says WUBBA LUBBA DUB DUB! (U17054)
posted 23 minutes ago
comment by The Sniper (U21079)
posted 2 minutes ago
rossobianchi says WUBBA LUBBA DUB DUB! -

Yes, it is condemning the treatment of women but is full of nonsense and religious propaganda that has no factual evidence behind it. Many of these cultural practices stem from religious beliefs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
As did the Inquisition, the Crusades, the ritual slaughter of the Burmese by Buddhists, the witch hunts, the Bartholomew's Day Massacre, the Pogroms in Russia and Germany...

I am no fan of organised religion, in part because it has allowed centuries-old works of fiction to be twisted and manipulated to support the control of people.

But your point was that "things like this [have] given the left a bad rep and is making them disliked," referring to an article that condemns the mistreatment of women in modern-day autocratic Islamic regimes.

If an article, which actually tries to bring some context and evidence, works to persuade people that that under their Islamic beliefs they have an obligation to ensure the fair treatment of women, I fail to see how that's a negative.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I think it's a negative because it's a distortion of the truth. I care about the facts first and foremost. The left can’t take a moral high ground in regards to telling the facts if they are willing to distort them just in order to be politically correct. I understand many in the left would also discredit articles such as this but similar articles can be found all across the left wing media.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What in the article is a distortion of the truth?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Suggesting that Muhammad was a feminist and that the religion promotes gender equality, failing to mention numerous texts and evidence that would discredit this claim...etc
----------------------------------------------------------------------

The funniest part about this is to suggest that Muhammad was a feminist and then speak of equality

feminism isnt about equality

What cannot be denied is that Muhammad did discuss and bring forth rights for women when they didnt exist. inheritance, property and voting

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Feminism is, by definition, about equality. You cannot be more wrong about that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I disagree. Even feminists cannot agree on a definition for feminism

most isms start on a platform that is good/reasonable but then exceed its boundaries

feminism is not about equality in the main but exceeding it
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Anyone who seeks greater rights and/or powers for women than men has no rights calling themselves a feminist or, in my book at least, a liberal.

Feminism has been around for more than a hundred years. Its definition and its aims are very clearly defined and established. It seeks equality in treatment under the law, in the family unit, in society and in the workplace.

Calling myself a feminist and trying to engineer a legal bias towards the female sexx is as sensible as calling myself a vegetarian and eating a steak or a Christian and sentencing a man to death.

Comment deleted by Site Moderator

comment by Galvs. (U10415)
posted 53 seconds ago
comment by Zlatanariyan (U19849)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Galvs. (U10415)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by HenrysCat (U3608)
posted 2 minutes ago
You're talking about stuff that happened a long time ago - I'm pretty sure any historical figure you might chose to pick would have something about their life we'd find dubious now. I'm not expert on the Koran, but assuming it doesn't say "feck kids", I'm not sure how Mo's marriage is relevant.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So either it's an ancient book that no one should believe in this day and age or it isn't?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Dont want to sound pretentious/arrogant/facetious but right here is the issue and why an in depth study/discussion is needed around issues

The quran and the hadith are the 2 ruling bodies (for want of a better word) for muslims. And there needs to be a basic understanding of how these work. Muslims and non muslims dont have this in, I would argue, most cases

Put simply hadith and quran has issues it deals with that are specific for its time and future. Some people mix the 2

FOr muslims its not hard to understand why that happens. MAin reason is countries with Islam as the main religion are largely illiterate/uneducated and the powers that be manipulate for their own purposes

For non muslims what often gets portrayed is snippets without context
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This manipulation is one of the worst parts of religion wouldn't you agree?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But surely using what ever books to manipulate someone or a group is not the religions fault. Its just evil people.

comment by Galvs. (U10415)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Zlatanariyan (U19849)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Galvs. (U10415)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by HenrysCat (U3608)
posted 2 minutes ago
You're talking about stuff that happened a long time ago - I'm pretty sure any historical figure you might chose to pick would have something about their life we'd find dubious now. I'm not expert on the Koran, but assuming it doesn't say "feck kids", I'm not sure how Mo's marriage is relevant.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So either it's an ancient book that no one should believe in this day and age or it isn't?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Dont want to sound pretentious/arrogant/facetious but right here is the issue and why an in depth study/discussion is needed around issues

The quran and the hadith are the 2 ruling bodies (for want of a better word) for muslims. And there needs to be a basic understanding of how these work. Muslims and non muslims dont have this in, I would argue, most cases

Put simply hadith and quran has issues it deals with that are specific for its time and future. Some people mix the 2

FOr muslims its not hard to understand why that happens. MAin reason is countries with Islam as the main religion are largely illiterate/uneducated and the powers that be manipulate for their own purposes

For non muslims what often gets portrayed is snippets without context
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This manipulation is one of the worst parts of religion wouldn't you agree?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

absolutely and why it is imperative that those claiming to be religious look into it for themsleves

Comment deleted by Site Moderator

comment by Galvs. (U10415)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Zlatanariyan (U19849)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Galvs. (U10415)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Zlatanariyan (U19849)
posted 28 seconds ago
comment by Galvs. (U10415)
posted 4 minutes ago
OK which one of you has the truth ?

I'm trying to understand here.....
----------------------------------------------------------------------

The truth is the only 1. However the issue is one of general ruling and specific ruling

For example the general ruing for a muslim is Pork is not allowed. Yet there is s pecific ruling that in circumstances of starvation and risk to life Pork is allowed. Some will not eat pork and die and some will be slightly peckish and throw a hog on the BBQ. Both are wrong but will justify their stance
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You think it's wrong to eat it to survive?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

no, in a word

But as i say I was fortunate enough to study different religions in some detail. My mum on the other hand grew up never having been to school (nothing to do with female emancipation etc but simply where and when she was born and other circumstances eg she lost her mum at a very young age). She would not even touch a pig as thats all she knew. It was a job to get her to eat frozen halal foods bought from stores

sounds ludicrous in this day and age I know
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I feel sorry for her....having that fearShe shouldn't have to be frightened
----------------------------------------------------------------------

100%

But it happens and I am always reminded of the argument, made famous in django unchained, about the many blacks not uprising against the few whites on plantations. it becomes a mindset from generations and hence you see people in places like Pakistan and the ME doing what they do

comment by Galvs. (U10415)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Number 1 unless we are number 2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10 (U15631)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Galvs. (U10415)
posted 53 seconds ago
comment by Zlatanariyan (U19849)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Galvs. (U10415)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by HenrysCat (U3608)
posted 2 minutes ago
You're talking about stuff that happened a long time ago - I'm pretty sure any historical figure you might chose to pick would have something about their life we'd find dubious now. I'm not expert on the Koran, but assuming it doesn't say "feck kids", I'm not sure how Mo's marriage is relevant.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So either it's an ancient book that no one should believe in this day and age or it isn't?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Dont want to sound pretentious/arrogant/facetious but right here is the issue and why an in depth study/discussion is needed around issues

The quran and the hadith are the 2 ruling bodies (for want of a better word) for muslims. And there needs to be a basic understanding of how these work. Muslims and non muslims dont have this in, I would argue, most cases

Put simply hadith and quran has issues it deals with that are specific for its time and future. Some people mix the 2

FOr muslims its not hard to understand why that happens. MAin reason is countries with Islam as the main religion are largely illiterate/uneducated and the powers that be manipulate for their own purposes

For non muslims what often gets portrayed is snippets without context
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This manipulation is one of the worst parts of religion wouldn't you agree?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But surely using what ever books to manipulate someone or a group is not the religions fault. Its just evil people.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Please....
Religion would not exist without people.....surely you can agree with that?
(or we wouldn't know about it as we wouldn't be here etc)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes I agree, but you cannot blame the religion itself.

Zlat

There is a word for people who believe women should hold greater power and rights to men: misandrist, the opposite of a misogynist.

I would not argue that there are some misandrists who would categorise themselves as 'radical feminists'. But that categorisation would be false and an affront to the 100 years and more of sacrifice and pain feminists have suffered in their fight towards a true equality.

comment by Galvs. (U10415)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Number 1 unless we are number 2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10 (U15631)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Galvs. (U10415)
posted 53 seconds ago
comment by Zlatanariyan (U19849)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Galvs. (U10415)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by HenrysCat (U3608)
posted 2 minutes ago
You're talking about stuff that happened a long time ago - I'm pretty sure any historical figure you might chose to pick would have something about their life we'd find dubious now. I'm not expert on the Koran, but assuming it doesn't say "feck kids", I'm not sure how Mo's marriage is relevant.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So either it's an ancient book that no one should believe in this day and age or it isn't?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Dont want to sound pretentious/arrogant/facetious but right here is the issue and why an in depth study/discussion is needed around issues

The quran and the hadith are the 2 ruling bodies (for want of a better word) for muslims. And there needs to be a basic understanding of how these work. Muslims and non muslims dont have this in, I would argue, most cases

Put simply hadith and quran has issues it deals with that are specific for its time and future. Some people mix the 2

FOr muslims its not hard to understand why that happens. MAin reason is countries with Islam as the main religion are largely illiterate/uneducated and the powers that be manipulate for their own purposes

For non muslims what often gets portrayed is snippets without context
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This manipulation is one of the worst parts of religion wouldn't you agree?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But surely using what ever books to manipulate someone or a group is not the religions fault. Its just evil people.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Please....
Religion would not exist without people.....surely you can agree with that?
(or we wouldn't know about it as we wouldn't be here etc)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

But that applies equally to any ideology. Look at democracy

Comment deleted by Site Moderator

Comment deleted by Site Moderator

Comment deleted by Site Moderator

comment by Galvs. (U10415)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Number 1 unless we are number 2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10 (U15631)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Galvs. (U10415)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Number 1 unless we are number 2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10 (U15631)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Galvs. (U10415)
posted 53 seconds ago
comment by Zlatanariyan (U19849)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Galvs. (U10415)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by HenrysCat (U3608)
posted 2 minutes ago
You're talking about stuff that happened a long time ago - I'm pretty sure any historical figure you might chose to pick would have something about their life we'd find dubious now. I'm not expert on the Koran, but assuming it doesn't say "feck kids", I'm not sure how Mo's marriage is relevant.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So either it's an ancient book that no one should believe in this day and age or it isn't?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Dont want to sound pretentious/arrogant/facetious but right here is the issue and why an in depth study/discussion is needed around issues

The quran and the hadith are the 2 ruling bodies (for want of a better word) for muslims. And there needs to be a basic understanding of how these work. Muslims and non muslims dont have this in, I would argue, most cases

Put simply hadith and quran has issues it deals with that are specific for its time and future. Some people mix the 2

FOr muslims its not hard to understand why that happens. MAin reason is countries with Islam as the main religion are largely illiterate/uneducated and the powers that be manipulate for their own purposes

For non muslims what often gets portrayed is snippets without context
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This manipulation is one of the worst parts of religion wouldn't you agree?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But surely using what ever books to manipulate someone or a group is not the religions fault. Its just evil people.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Please....
Religion would not exist without people.....surely you can agree with that?
(or we wouldn't know about it as we wouldn't be here etc)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes I agree, but you cannot blame the religion itself.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
OK....

Is it healthy to love someone you fear?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Eh ?

comment by rossobianchi says WUBBA LUBBA DUB DUB! (U17054)
posted 58 seconds ago
Zlat

There is a word for people who believe women should hold greater power and rights to men: misandrist, the opposite of a misogynist.

I would not argue that there are some misandrists who would categorise themselves as 'radical feminists'. But that categorisation would be false and an affront to the 100 years and more of sacrifice and pain feminists have suffered in their fight towards a true equality.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Problem with discussion on websites is that the depth isnt there in a discussion and things come across as statements which can be taken any way

In principle I agree to a degree. However I am more inclined towards feminism exceeding what it was set up for. If indeed those who were behind the early movement did indeed do any sacrificing

What I mean here is that very early women who took up the cause did so with male backing. Many being middle/upper class and having a certain view of what a women should and shouldnt do which would be against modern femenism

As I say many causes start off good but then exceed their own boundaries. I dont see feminism today , in the main, as being about equality

Comment deleted by Site Moderator

Comment deleted by Site Moderator

comment by Galvs. (U10415)
posted 5 seconds ago
comment by Number 1 unless we are number 2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10 (U15631)
posted 23 seconds ago
comment by Galvs. (U10415)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Number 1 unless we are number 2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10 (U15631)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Galvs. (U10415)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Number 1 unless we are number 2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10 (U15631)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Galvs. (U10415)
posted 53 seconds ago
comment by Zlatanariyan (U19849)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Galvs. (U10415)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by HenrysCat (U3608)
posted 2 minutes ago
You're talking about stuff that happened a long time ago - I'm pretty sure any historical figure you might chose to pick would have something about their life we'd find dubious now. I'm not expert on the Koran, but assuming it doesn't say "feck kids", I'm not sure how Mo's marriage is relevant.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So either it's an ancient book that no one should believe in this day and age or it isn't?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Dont want to sound pretentious/arrogant/facetious but right here is the issue and why an in depth study/discussion is needed around issues

The quran and the hadith are the 2 ruling bodies (for want of a better word) for muslims. And there needs to be a basic understanding of how these work. Muslims and non muslims dont have this in, I would argue, most cases

Put simply hadith and quran has issues it deals with that are specific for its time and future. Some people mix the 2

FOr muslims its not hard to understand why that happens. MAin reason is countries with Islam as the main religion are largely illiterate/uneducated and the powers that be manipulate for their own purposes

For non muslims what often gets portrayed is snippets without context
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This manipulation is one of the worst parts of religion wouldn't you agree?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But surely using what ever books to manipulate someone or a group is not the religions fault. Its just evil people.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Please....
Religion would not exist without people.....surely you can agree with that?
(or we wouldn't know about it as we wouldn't be here etc)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes I agree, but you cannot blame the religion itself.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
OK....

Is it healthy to love someone you fear?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Eh ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's not a difficult question mate
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Your question is nonsense. If you are implying that you love god because of fear, then that person has got the wrong end of the stick.

Comment deleted by Site Moderator