comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted less than a minute ago
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 57 seconds ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted less than a minute ago
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by CrouchEndGooner (U13531)
posted 38 seconds ago
Ginger you're ranting about something that nobody has said
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Not so.

Tam claimed that he sees the argument all the time re cancer treatments and claimed that things would be a lot worse if we hadn’t locked down before. Nobody knows that and evidence is pouring out every day as to how much more damaging it is. We’ll probably never find out.

His last comment was just a personal swipe at me from yesterday where he “imagined” I’d made claims about modelling and mitigation effects.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Aye. You away and slap your own head. Might knock some sense into it and stop you making ridiculous assumptions and accusations.

Then again…..
----------------------------------------------------------------------



I haven't done anything of the sort. You've come on here with a bee in your bonnet and taken swipes at me.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Then you must have a double on here. Stranger things have happened
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Show me where I have mentioned you on this thread or made any accusations towards you.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Just now 😂
----------------------------------------------------------------------



Ach, I’m fed up arguing back and fore. And that includes you Tam so apologies if they are due

There’s more to life than this but I’ll probably piiiss everyone off now by saying I’m off out to socialise in Liverpool tonight.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Good luck to you

comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 17 seconds ago
comment by Insert random username (U10647)
posted less than a minute ago
Whilst those figures of 100,000 are quite alarming, Im surprised the more data driven amongst us aren't pointing out that the number of patients would be more helpful..

My friends mum (who sadly has around a month left to live) had her cancer appointments cancelled 5 times over the first two lockdowns, (1 she cancelled/refused herself to have a break in the summer) that 100,000 won't relate to 100,000 people fortunately and it certainly won't be a 100% death rate either.

Lockdowns are essential to protect other NHS services, and I'll continue to advocate/defend them until we have a sensible approach that protects other services.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

How long do you believe we should carry on like this?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
For me, with lockdowns in those countries which have provided their residents with the opportunity to get vaccinated already, the simple answer is as long as is necessary to protect healthcare services from being overwhelmed to the point of collapse.

NHS bed occupancy is currently somewhere around 90%. About 15% of those are COVID-19 patients, with the NHS saying it expects to see an estimated 2 per cent increase in COVID admissions *each day* now. Compound that across a month without intervention and you have a very sizeable problem.

Hospital admins and doctors, as well as the modellers, are sounding the alarms. A quarter of ambulances are already queuing outside hospitals. At what point, given that you have to act three weeks in advance, do you admit that you have to intervene?

comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by CrouchEndGooner (U13531)
posted about a minute ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Insert random username (U10647)
posted less than a minute ago
Whilst those figures of 100,000 are quite alarming, Im surprised the more data driven amongst us aren't pointing out that the number of patients would be more helpful..

My friends mum (who sadly has around a month left to live) had her cancer appointments cancelled 5 times over the first two lockdowns, (1 she cancelled/refused herself to have a break in the summer) that 100,000 won't relate to 100,000 people fortunately and it certainly won't be a 100% death rate either.

Lockdowns are essential to protect other NHS services, and I'll continue to advocate/defend them until we have a sensible approach that protects other services.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

How long do you believe we should carry on like this?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I mean the CMO has literally today said that not introducing measures will cause more issues and lead to more deaths as the NHS won't be able to manage a huge wave alongside all other treatments
----------------------------------------------------------------------

If the modelling is even remotely correct then no we won’t. So why are we not in immediate lockdown if this is the only resort to turn to.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

The main reasons we are not in lockdowns or restrictions have been slow are political. We have a PM who promised there would be no more and a party behind him with a large number anti-restriction proponents. The decision on whether to do that type of thing is now completely partisan.

If we do lockdown again, I'll see it as a consequence of the dither and delay that this administration CONSTANTLY display with regards to the easier, less intrusive measures such as masks.

And I'll do it happily to protect essential treatments.

comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by CrouchEndGooner (U13531)
posted about a minute ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Insert random username (U10647)
posted less than a minute ago
Whilst those figures of 100,000 are quite alarming, Im surprised the more data driven amongst us aren't pointing out that the number of patients would be more helpful..

My friends mum (who sadly has around a month left to live) had her cancer appointments cancelled 5 times over the first two lockdowns, (1 she cancelled/refused herself to have a break in the summer) that 100,000 won't relate to 100,000 people fortunately and it certainly won't be a 100% death rate either.

Lockdowns are essential to protect other NHS services, and I'll continue to advocate/defend them until we have a sensible approach that protects other services.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

How long do you believe we should carry on like this?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I mean the CMO has literally today said that not introducing measures will cause more issues and lead to more deaths as the NHS won't be able to manage a huge wave alongside all other treatments
----------------------------------------------------------------------

If the modelling is even remotely correct then no we won’t. So why are we not in immediate lockdown if this is the only resort to turn to.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don’t get this

This time last year we were at around 16000 hospitalisations 7 day average and we're currently around 7300

This time last year we were at around 20,000 cases and we’re now at around 60,000 cases

So 60,000 is resulting in around 7500 hospitalisations (obviously thanks to the vaccine)

And to get to 16,000 hospitalisations we would have to 128,000 cases

I suppose that is possible but that’s double where we were last year….

Ffs they’re locking us down again….

Just to point out that I don't want to go into lockdown or further restrictions, but also recognise that this continued exponential growth and its potential impacts are pushing us to a potential crisis point.

"I'll do it happily"



Little zealot.

comment by Insert random username (U10647)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Gingernuts (U2992)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Insert random username (U10647)
posted less than a minute ago
Whilst those figures of 100,000 are quite alarming, Im surprised the more data driven amongst us aren't pointing out that the number of patients would be more helpful..

My friends mum (who sadly has around a month left to live) had her cancer appointments cancelled 5 times over the first two lockdowns, (1 she cancelled/refused herself to have a break in the summer) that 100,000 won't relate to 100,000 people fortunately and it certainly won't be a 100% death rate either.

Lockdowns are essential to protect other NHS services, and I'll continue to advocate/defend them until we have a sensible approach that protects other services.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

How long do you believe we should carry on like this?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, I care about the provision of all other NHS services, so as long as we need too.

Also k would be completely happy with mask mandates and distancing suggestions being much more frequent.. afterall I'm sure we would all rather have such a minor inconvenience if it prevents far worse restrictions that fack up our ability to enjoy life, socialise and for many: earn a living.

It's going to be less necessary as we build up a catalogue of immunity against the disease anyway, and hopefully they will isolate parts of the virus that doesn't mutate so we can get vaccinations that are far more effective (and hopefully distributable by tablet through the post as they suggest they hope for)

But until then: it's too important that people have access to lifesaving treatment and we need to protect it (or reopen nightingales to prevent covid patients entering hospitals)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There simply aren’t enough nurses to open the Nightingale hospitals. For intensive care beds, you need intensive care nursing staff.

Critical care staff-patient ratios are already beyond what are deemed to be safe standards. The situation has become so bad that some Trust bosses have asked nurses to work extra hours in their ICUs in exchange for enhanced pay, *regardless of their experience*.

If you wanted to open up the Nightingales now, you’d need to take ICU staff out of hospitals, which doesn’t make any sense.

comment by NPE - Finding Timo (U22712)
posted 29 seconds ago
"I'll do it happily"



Little zealot.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sniperwolf there

comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 16 seconds ago
Just to point out that I don't want to go into lockdown or further restrictions, but also recognise that this continued exponential growth and its potential impacts are pushing us to a potential crisis point.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

How many deaths so far from Omicron?

comment by NPE - Finding Timo (U22712)
posted less than a minute ago
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 16 seconds ago
Just to point out that I don't want to go into lockdown or further restrictions, but also recognise that this continued exponential growth and its potential impacts are pushing us to a potential crisis point.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

How many deaths so far from Omicron?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Deaths and hospitalisations are a lag metric behind cases. So we won't know the impact of the current numbers for a few weeks.

comment by And... Rosso... Though its... Yeah and... That... (U17054)

If you wanted to open up the Nightingales now, you’d need to take ICU staff out of hospitals, which doesn’t make any sense.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

What's your view on more beds at Kabul Airport?

It should be fine right

Nothing happened there did it - as you calmly predicted.

comment by NPE - Finding Timo (U22712)
posted 22 seconds ago
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 16 seconds ago
Just to point out that I don't want to go into lockdown or further restrictions, but also recognise that this continued exponential growth and its potential impacts are pushing us to a potential crisis point.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

How many deaths so far from Omicron?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Actually that’s a fair point following from my calculations. I forgot that Omicron is what? 29% milder.

comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 20 seconds ago
comment by NPE - Finding Timo (U22712)
posted less than a minute ago
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 16 seconds ago
Just to point out that I don't want to go into lockdown or further restrictions, but also recognise that this continued exponential growth and its potential impacts are pushing us to a potential crisis point.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

How many deaths so far from Omicron?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Deaths and hospitalisations are a lag metric behind cases. So we won't know the impact of the current numbers for a few weeks.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Hmm...but what we do know is the variant has been recorded as milder in other countries that do have data, no?

comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 25 seconds ago
comment by NPE - Finding Timo (U22712)
posted 22 seconds ago
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 16 seconds ago
Just to point out that I don't want to go into lockdown or further restrictions, but also recognise that this continued exponential growth and its potential impacts are pushing us to a potential crisis point.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

How many deaths so far from Omicron?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Actually that’s a fair point following from my calculations. I forgot that Omicron is what? 29% milder.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I think if we are making freedom contingent on bed capacity - at great expense to businesses, the economy and wider NHS treatments - 20 months after a pandemic begins, it might make sense to check these things.

Might also have made sense to have boosted bed capacity about a year ago.

Anyway, not sure why the Left complains on here, they will get the digital ID cards, the sustained restrictions and the NHS mandates and deification they have always dreamed of and all it cost them was the meaning of life.

comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by NPE - Finding Timo (U22712)
posted 22 seconds ago
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 16 seconds ago
Just to point out that I don't want to go into lockdown or further restrictions, but also recognise that this continued exponential growth and its potential impacts are pushing us to a potential crisis point.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

How many deaths so far from Omicron?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Actually that’s a fair point following from my calculations. I forgot that Omicron is what? 29% milder.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's probably already built in to your figures, no one has ascertained that the 29% isn't just because we have some immunity from previous strains.

I see someone is along to end the adult conversation and Instead sprinkle his insults around the place like confetti, so I will bow out until later

We already have lockdowns - in terms of the effect we are now going to see on the economy.

The health authorities and government has ensured that with their messaging and the effect it will have on behaviour.

To be fair to Insert, Rosso, and Tamwolf - at least an lockdown is normally accompanied by financial support - which businesses are in dire need of courtesy of government warnings.

Only issue is the economy is already facked.

comment by Insert random username (U10647)
posted 1 minute ago
I see someone is along to end the adult conversation and Instead sprinkle his insults around the place like confetti, so I will bow out until later
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Please leave.

I assumed childish debate had begun when you said you would be happy to go into lockdown lol

comment by NPE - Finding Timo (U22712)
posted 20 seconds ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 25 seconds ago
comment by NPE - Finding Timo (U22712)
posted 22 seconds ago
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 16 seconds ago
Just to point out that I don't want to go into lockdown or further restrictions, but also recognise that this continued exponential growth and its potential impacts are pushing us to a potential crisis point.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

How many deaths so far from Omicron?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Actually that’s a fair point following from my calculations. I forgot that Omicron is what? 29% milder.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I think if we are making freedom contingent on bed capacity - at great expense to businesses, the economy and wider NHS treatments - 20 months after a pandemic begins, it might make sense to check these things.

Might also have made sense to have boosted bed capacity about a year ago.

Anyway, not sure why the Left complains on here, they will get the digital ID cards, the sustained restrictions and the NHS mandates and deification they have always dreamed of and all it cost them was the meaning of life.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The Meaning of Life? Its still on YouTube.
Every sperm is sacred was my favourite bit.

comment by son of quebec (U8127)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by NPE - Finding Timo (U22712)
posted 20 seconds ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 25 seconds ago
comment by NPE - Finding Timo (U22712)
posted 22 seconds ago
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 16 seconds ago
Just to point out that I don't want to go into lockdown or further restrictions, but also recognise that this continued exponential growth and its potential impacts are pushing us to a potential crisis point.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

How many deaths so far from Omicron?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Actually that’s a fair point following from my calculations. I forgot that Omicron is what? 29% milder.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I think if we are making freedom contingent on bed capacity - at great expense to businesses, the economy and wider NHS treatments - 20 months after a pandemic begins, it might make sense to check these things.

Might also have made sense to have boosted bed capacity about a year ago.

Anyway, not sure why the Left complains on here, they will get the digital ID cards, the sustained restrictions and the NHS mandates and deification they have always dreamed of and all it cost them was the meaning of life.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The Meaning of Life? Its still on YouTube.
Every sperm is sacred was my favourite bit.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

If every sperm is sacred then my bedroom carpet is a shrine to the divine.

comment by NPE - Finding Timo (U22712)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 20 seconds ago
comment by NPE - Finding Timo (U22712)
posted less than a minute ago
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 16 seconds ago
Just to point out that I don't want to go into lockdown or further restrictions, but also recognise that this continued exponential growth and its potential impacts are pushing us to a potential crisis point.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

How many deaths so far from Omicron?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Deaths and hospitalisations are a lag metric behind cases. So we won't know the impact of the current numbers for a few weeks.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Hmm...but what we do know is the variant has been recorded as milder in other countries that do have data, no?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

We are hoping it is yes. It is also estimated to be more transmissible though (33% was it?).

So if something is 29% milder but 33% more transmissible, what is the impact of that. Do we suddenly have more people infected in a shorter time, which actually leads to similar strains on the health service despite it being milder?

There are too many unknowns, which is why I think it is stupid that these decisions have now become so partisan within the government.

I think one point NPE made that I’m certain we would all agree on is why additional beds haven’t been created in the last twelve months or so.

We’ve spent a fortune on the economics of it but the infrastructure, not so much by comparison

Random items you end up looking up….

Uk hospital beds from 2003-2020

https://www.statista.com/statistics/473264/number-of-hospital-beds-in-the-united-kingdom-uk/#statisticContainer

comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by NPE - Finding Timo (U22712)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 20 seconds ago
comment by NPE - Finding Timo (U22712)
posted less than a minute ago
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 16 seconds ago
Just to point out that I don't want to go into lockdown or further restrictions, but also recognise that this continued exponential growth and its potential impacts are pushing us to a potential crisis point.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

How many deaths so far from Omicron?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Deaths and hospitalisations are a lag metric behind cases. So we won't know the impact of the current numbers for a few weeks.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Hmm...but what we do know is the variant has been recorded as milder in other countries that do have data, no?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

We are hoping it is yes. It is also estimated to be more transmissible though (33% was it?).

So if something is 29% milder but 33% more transmissible, what is the impact of that. Do we suddenly have more people infected in a shorter time, which actually leads to similar strains on the health service despite it being milder?

There are too many unknowns, which is why I think it is stupid that these decisions have now become so partisan within the government.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

It seems a strange bargain we have entered into where caution equates to 'something must be done, here is something' - an example of which is the utterly useless vaccine passports pushed through earlier this week.

Another factor to consider with cases is that hospitals become hotbeds for Covid - have done in past three waves - so people dying or even hospitalised who are infected by Omicron in the past 28 days does not mean they are in hospital because of Omicron.

This is especially true due to its high transmissibility.